5-htp Pricing, Dosage, thoughts?

[SoulSeeker]

I am thinking about ordering some 5-HTP, not only for "the day after" but also for regular use for phases of mild depression.

But I am verry put of by the prices I encountert. (with regular use that would become quit a pricey habit) So I wondered what you guys pay for it, or think is fair. I would also love to know if there are vendors that maybe sell powder instead of caps or tablets, since I assume that this way it would be much cheaper.

Also, what are your thoughts on dosage (both for regular use and for use "the day after")

Anyone here used it on a daily basis against depression? What are your experiences?

[Spaced out]

I would like to know as well :D

[Pandy]

I've used 5htp in the past for pre/post loading.

But my word of advice (from experience) is to avoid taking 5htp in large amounts within short periods of time... i.e. 100mg an hour for 6hrs. Flooding your body with this stuff is like poison and is particularly problematic if you are or have been rolling.

In preparation (part recovery) for returning to the 'goods' I did a month course of 100mg each morning. For the first week I noticed a slight lift in mood and feeling of wellbeing, which eventually dissipated. real or imagined I can't say, however the roll I had after a bit of detox and recovery was pretty special.

[SoulSeeker]

heh dont worry, wasnt planing on binging ;-) 100mg a day sounds just fine. Even plan on starting with 25 in the moring and 25mg in the evening and working my way up from there till I notice changes.

Dosages above 300mg a day are definetly not recommended and as studies have shown, only increases side effects and not desired effects.
And ofcourse you shouldnt take it WHILE rolling, but a day bevore and after. Intaking 5-HTP while on substances that work with seratonin is actualy pretty dangerous.

So, no "real" effects with regular useage you say? Heard that there are "tolerance" problems (you cant realy call it that, but I lack a better word) and its recommended that after 3 weeks you take a 1 week brake. Other than that, I read alot of mixed reviewes. Some swear on it, some say its useless. Guess I will have to find out for myself ;-)

[Pandy]

no probs, I've done many stupid things in my time and that happens to be one of them... eating 5htp whilst on a roll... not fun. live'n'learn.

For me anyways I had thought that for the first week there was an mild upper effect... then my body, as a response to extra 5htp floating around, found equilibrium again. Perhaps for people experiencing depression of the chemical variety (and not of the cognitive var.) are where the positive reports arrive from.

[enduin]

Tried 5-htp some time ago, wanted to see how it worked in a spot of mild depression. I've been reading about possible cardiotoxicity if taken orally, as part of 5-htp is transformed in 5-ht (serotonin) in the liver, and then it messes up with 5-ht (a-b?don't remember...) receptors on the heart.
I hence decided to try the insufflation route, but other than being very uncomfortable and making me coughing quite a lot (as the powder is too fine and dry) it also gave me quite strong nausea and forehead sweats, and I ended up taking a pill to kill the nausea.I took 100-150mg if I'm not wrong...
Anyone had such issues too?
Or more certain info on the heart stuff? Cause I saw those studies on the toxicity, and other studies telling that the liver has MAO activity and hence the 5-ht is at the same time created and destroyed in the liver. Who's right?

[enduin]

Oh and I know a source for bulk 5-htp, if someone need it PMme and we can exchange it...

[valseedian]

I tend to take 100mg of 5-htp with my Phen's when I take them... tho I do tend to take 100mg atleast once daily.

I find by slowly increasing my body's total seretonin/dopamine/norepinephrin(sp??) balance that I can almost achieve an amphetamine like sharpness.


as with everything else tho, if you disturb the delecate balance of chemicals in your brain too much and over too long a period of time, you can cause permanent damage to these systems... take it from ME as first hand experience... if you're brain is 'used' to having alot of seretonin for a long period of time, and then you stop supplimenting your natural production, you're body will see the fall back to the correct ratio as a 'deficit'... or the reaction needed will require more than your body makes


I need to do more reading about the entire system... I'd like to say my basic understanding of the system as a whole is very very limited... tho probably much more expancive than 90% of the general public.

my brain is fried... I've actually resolved to take 2 weeks off 'most' psychedelics, considering my less-than-positive DOI experimentation of recent as a warning sign of things to come.

[SoulSeeker]

A substance known as “Peak X” has been found in low concentrations in several over-the-counter 5-HTP preparations. Some researchers think this substance may be linked to toxicity previously reported in a 1989 L-tryptophan contamination incident.
However, there is serious question about whether Peak X is actually the toxic agent and it may be unrelated to the problems previously associated with L-tryptophan.
Although two articles reported possible associations between 5-HTP consumption and toxicity symptoms similar to those attributed to contaminated L-tryprophan, evidence linking 5-HTP or Peak X with any toxicity symptoms remains speculative. Although the structure of Peak X has recently been identified, there is no firm evidence that this substance has caused or contributed to any toxicity or disease.

Thats all I found on toxicity of 5-htp. Think you can dig up the report that says its only related to oral intake? Sounds a bit weird to me...

[enduin]

It's not what I was talkin about: I heard of the contamination and seems like it was an isolate case, the studies I've been reading about talk about oral consumption because in that way the 5-htp goes into the liver, with insufflation on the other hand you put 5-htp directly in your blood, and so it can reach the brain still in the form of 5-htp (instead of being converted in 5-ht in the liver, and it's the 5-ht only that it's potentially dangerous for the heart) and hence it's harmless.
Btw the whole problem is bypassed if you use L-tryptophan instead of 5-htp, as it's one step under 5-htp and it's not converted in the liver even if you take it orally, and reach the brain where it's converted in 5-htp and then in 5-ht.
The only flaw with tryptophan is that it seems to take much longer than 5-htp to shows its effects.
Gonna answer your pm too.
Would like to link those studies, but found them googling around and didn't bookmark them... If I happen to find something again I'll post ASAP

[Spaced out]

Ordered these
http://images.esellerpro.com/2241/I/332/images_5HTP.jpg (http://images.esellerpro.com/2241/I/332/images_5HTP.jpg)I
then made into an easy to swallow capsule, and each one provides 100mg of 5-HTP (in amino acid form).

[Spaced out]

Had 1 this morning,

placebo, possible? but i don't feel as deppresed from BKS

[Spaced out]

lol this is bringing my euphoria back for smoking the haha hehe kind

[SoulSeeker]

Sounds like its worth a try after all :-)

[enduin]

I didn't find the exact study, but they talked about it quite extensively on bluelight
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=6076816

[piracetam101]

5-HTP works great.

Take 100mg-200mg before you go to bed on at least a semi-full stomach.

If you want to take em in the morning try to find ones that have B-complex to give you energy and make sure you eat first. (5-HTP on an empty stomach will make you sick).

Here's something on the back of my bottle of Nature's Bounty 100mg 5-HTP Double Strength capsules.

5-HTP is a precursor to sertonin, a neurotransmitter involved in sending messages through the nervous system. This forumla also includes B vitamins to promote nervous system health and the herb Valerian.

On a side note, don't take this everyday. Taking 5-HTP everyday will result in a shift of your baseline level of serotonin. This means when you stop taking it, your brain will report a deficit and your have depression/anxiety/withdrawals symptoms. Just take it whenever your in a bad mood or you feel like you could use a mood boost.

To sum it up 5-HTP is a mood enhancer. 5-HTP is a happy pill :-)

[xxdd]

May be a stupid question, but could taking 5-HTP have the same effect on rolling as SSRIs?

[piracetam101]

No not at all, 5-HTP increases the level of sertonin but does not lock it up like an SSRI does.

However, you should avoid a 5-HTP/MDMA combo as that can cause sertonin syndrome. Take one 5-HTP in the morning if you must but I don't even do that. Here's a handy rollers preload postload routine:

For the week of rolling (try to get 5 days of preloading in).
Piracetam 3x800mg 3times daily.
5-HTP - 100mg-200mg before bed on a semifull stomach.
MultiVitamin
Fruit and Vegetable Extracts (Like Juice +)
(source of choline is needed too, eat chicken or eggs at least every couple days)

The day of rolling
Piracetam 800mg one in the morning and one at lunch.
Multivitamin
Fruit and Vegetable Extracts (Like Juice +)
Try not to eat startch, eat a light dinner.

Pop your rolls.

Towards the middle/end of your roll eat 4 or 5 800mg piracetam.
Smoke Weed
Contine rolling (note: piracetam makes the comedown non existant and you'll have this mellow rolls for about 12 hours so you prob wont be able to sleep)

Before sleep eat something and some 5-htp (make sure you don't have an empty stomach!)

Wake up and eat piracetam(you can take these all day every day, even on an empty stomach)
5-HTP if you want (I usually eat 5-HTP for the next couple of days)
Smoke weed again as rolls stay in your system for 24hrs so weed helps with the afterglow alot and sometimes you can convice yourself your rolling again.
Coffee or some uppers work great too.

Have fun stay safe :-)

[GOA]

Yeah, never dose 5-HTP simultaneuously with anything. Several hours before and after. Probably longer if it's enteric-coated.

[enduin]

piracetam, why taking 5-htp on full stomach? Is it because of the cofactors needed to convert it to 5-ht?

[piracetam101]

I'm not sure the reasons, it just makes my stomach and serveral others stomach's upset. I've thrown up after taking 200mg of 5-htp the morning after a roll when I only ate pudding.

You may have a strong stomach and can handle it, but most can not.

5-htp = take with food

[holdout]

5-htp is not a solution for depression unless you are constantly deprived of serotonin for obvious reasons. otherwise taking it when ur serotonin levels are normal will not do much at all to help you...



I'm not sure the reasons, it just makes my stomach and serveral others stomach's upset. I've thrown up after taking 200mg of 5-htp the morning after a roll when I only ate pudding.

You may have a strong stomach and can handle it, but most can not.

5-htp = take with food

yes, some pharma/supplement brands use different fillers and "carriers" in their stuff that ppl's stomachs dont like at all. try to find a tableted form of 5-HTP rather than gelcapped. keep trying different brands until you find one that's right for you. also, some people react to stuff when the main ingredient is derived from a naturally-occurring source rather than prepared synthetically or extracted purely. try to stick to regular pure synthetics rather than succumb to that "All-natural" marketing BS hehe. (yes, there is sometimes better absorption for some things, like coral calcium vs elemental calcium, but can you really afford to be a picky snob when the most harmful actions you're planning on doing is taking up recreational drugs? hahahah)

[piracetam101]

5-htp is not a solution for depression unless you are constantly deprived of serotonin for obvious reasons. otherwise taking it when ur serotonin levels are normal will not do much at all to help you...


Except for preloading for rolling face. And Postloading.

I use it sometimes for being burnt out on weed. Pop a 5-HTP and a few hours later you'll be back up and happy. Piracetam + 5-HTP work great together too.

But daily, yeah its not so good for ya. If you must try takin 50mg or a lower dose so your serotonin baseline level doesn't shift.

[enduin]

I'm not sure the reasons, it just makes my stomach and serveral others stomach's upset. I've thrown up after taking 200mg of 5-htp the morning after a roll when I only ate pudding.

You may have a strong stomach and can handle it, but most can not.

5-htp = take with food

This makes a lot of sense, as when I tried it was some hours after dinner and it made me very sick! Now I know why... So I'll try it again with food!
Thanks for the tip, my stomach btw is not strong at all...

[FriendlyToker]

It's not good to take it with food, because it competes with other proteins to get absorbed. I take 390mg in the morning on an empty stomach and an hour later 130mg with 3g of Tyrosine.

[valseedian]

let me take the lead on this thread again and say that there is absolutely no need to take more than a very little amount of 5-htp at a time.. it may actually be harmful to take more than say 20mg...

5-htp is the last precursor to seretonin and it crosses the blood brain barrier. without vitamin b6, it cannot be processed and is ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS.

secondly, a sharp spike in the available seretonin may feel nice for the short term, but can be nothing but dangerous in the long term



I have taken 100mg 5-htp pills as much as twice daily when trying to supplement trips or just to stabalize, but I find that afterwards I'm just as fucked.. and sometimes even moreso.

when you have an abundance of seretonin, you automatically create less dopamine. less dopamine = less happy (and less dopaminergic toxicity, why methheads and old people are soo grumpy)


Conclusion:
DO NOT EVER take more than 15mg 5-htp at a time, tho you CAN spread out up to 100mg over the course of an 18 hour waking day
I've started taking a supplement of 8mg 5-htp, 25mg l-dopa (l-tyrosine sometimes but 3x as much) as much as 5-10 times a day, and B complex, D and b6 supplements once a day (usually with some acidic drink in the morning)


the only healthy way to take neurotransmitter precursors is to boost the bioavailability of as many as possilbe in order to eliminate a deficiency of any.

[FriendlyToker]

This is wrong. Taking 5HTP with B vitamins make it convert to serotonin in the bloodstream, not in the brain. It damages the heart valve.
http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1999-February/037051.html

Also, this webpage: http://www.5-htp.pl/
says about dosage of:
*
Deppresion: 300 - 400 mg dziennie
*
Migraines: 400 - 600 mg dziennie
*
Sleep disorders: 100 - 300 mg dziennie
*
Fibromyalgia: 300 mg dziennie
*
Appetite suppressant: 600 - 900 dziennie


dziennie=daily.

[valseedian]

This is wrong. Taking 5HTP with B vitamins make it convert to serotonin in the bloodstream, not in the brain. It damages the heart valve.
http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1999-February/037051.html

Also, this webpage: http://www.5-htp.pl/
says about dosage of:
*
Deppresion: 300 - 400 mg dziennie
*
Migraines: 400 - 600 mg dziennie
*
Sleep disorders: 100 - 300 mg dziennie
*
Fibromyalgia: 300 mg dziennie
*
Appetite suppressant: 600 - 900 dziennie


dziennie=daily.

b vitamins are required to make it into seretonin, regardless of location... IE, you'd have a hard time stressing your heart on the amounts I'm suggesting.

those *deseases* are probably manifestations of problems in the seretonin/dopamine system... appetite suppressants have always been associated with disasterous consequences.


people who are already healthy and happy should NOT load on 5-htp at doses available... to be truely useful it should be consumed in small amounts many times daily, or used to follow drug use or stabilize depression- Once stable tho, do not continue loading, it will only cause issues: your body will be used to an amount of seretonin that it is incapable of creating without specific supplementation. this is the definition and action of addiction... and you will need to restabilize.

it's just a bad idea to chronically fuck with your neurotransmitter balance.

ask anyone who advocates multiple doses of 100mg... they all have been doing it soo long that they need to... it's not making them better, if they stop it gets horrible. People don't think of drugs like this as being able to create a withdrawl because they don't get you high.. but l-dopa and 5-htp can give the worst withdrawls of any drug in existance.

[FriendlyToker]

The link I gave you already says why it should NOT be converted in the bloodstream. Read more carefully. And more serotonin in blood = more serotonin in brain is a wrong thinking.

[valseedian]

The link I gave you already says why it should NOT be converted in the bloodstream. Read more carefully. And more serotonin in blood = more serotonin in brain is a wrong thinking.

and you didn't read my post at all.

read my posts and reply again.
your post, and links are pointless... mindless empirical data with absolutely no advice.
FACT: seretonin outside your brain can weaken your heart valve and cause hypertention...
guess what. we all have seretonin outside our brains, and we all NEED b6 to make seretonin REGARDLESS OF LOCATION. if you load 5-htp without (either having enough b6 or adding it) b6, it will never be converted to anything usefull. YOU NEED IT!!


My post moves to counteract this point exactly... taking all the dose all at once will put less through the blood brain barrier and more straight into the liver.



And more serotonin in blood = more serotonin in brain is a wrong thinking.

Duh, like I stated, seretonin doesn't cross the blood brain barrier.




all those points aside, adding a b vitamin to a 5-htp supplement will not kill you. I am living proof that it is in-fact the way to do it.
your suggestion has nothing to do with adding a b vitamin, and everything to do with loading 5-htp .. taking it in smaller doses over longer periods of time allows more to cross the blood brain barrier and less to metabolize in your bloodstream.

[FriendlyToker]

Now I see your point, my bad. Did not understand, I apologize. That shed some light. Could you tell me the proper dosage of 5HTP and Tyrosine?
I have: 130mg/caps 5HTP and 1g/caps Tyrosine. When and how should I ingest them to get full effect?
Would be really grateful for an advice, as you know way more than me.
Again, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

[valseedian]

Now I see your point, my bad. Did not understand, I apologize. That shed some light. Could you tell me the proper dosage of 5HTP and Tyrosine?
I have: 130mg/caps 5HTP and 1g/caps Tyrosine. When and how should I ingest them to get full effect?
Would be really grateful for an advice, as you know way more than me.
Again, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

l-tyrosine is useful (and most notably safest) in doses under 250mg, but doesn't have the same set of issues that 5-htp has.

I suggest 100mg with every 10mg 5-htp with atleast 2 hours between each supplementation. Usually 4 or more times a day with the vitamin regimen in the morning for best absorption results.

one day, you'll notice your chest getting kinda tight... end the neurotransmitter precursors at this point and don't start again for atleast 3 days.. this will allow your body to naturally re-balance your system and restabilize without withdrawl or any symptoms at all.

I really hope this helps everyone

[wildguy6969]

l-tyrosine is useful (and most notably safest) in doses under 250mg, but doesn't have the same set of issues that 5-htp has.

I suggest 100mg with every 10mg 5-htp with atleast 2 hours between each supplementation. Usually 4 or more times a day with the vitamin regimen in the morning for best absorption results.

one day, you'll notice your chest getting kinda tight... end the neurotransmitter precursors at this point and don't start again for atleast 3 days.. this will allow your body to naturally re-balance your system and restabilize without withdrawl or any symptoms at all.

I really hope this helps everyone

iam really interested in these !
treat your body right ..... but your mind better :D

[FriendlyToker]

What about ingestion with food? When should I ingest them? Before, after, with food?

[piracetam101]

Dude, your staright to take up to 200mg 5-HTP when you feel you need it. I used to take that much every day back in highschool when I was rolling every weekend and such.

Take it with food. Try to find 5-HTP's with b-complex vitamins built in. Just pop a multivitamin if your 5-htp's don't.

Those doses he was explaining were proabally for daily use. As i said before, don't take it daily as your serotonin baseline can shift. Use it as it as sold for. A mood enchancer.

Or for MDMA enchancement, pre/post load, or day after depression.

Look back a couple pages and read my post from before. Doing it sporatically makes it safe to abuse :-)

Stay safe.

[valseedian]

Dude, your staright to take up to 200mg 5-HTP when you feel you need it. I used to take that much every day back in highschool when I was rolling every weekend and such.

Take it with food. Try to find 5-HTP's with b-complex vitamins built in. Just pop a multivitamin if your 5-htp's don't.

Those doses he was explaining were proabally for daily use. As i said before, don't take it daily as your serotonin baseline can shift. Use it as it as sold for. A mood enchancer.

Or for MDMA enchancement, pre/post load, or day after depression.

Look back a couple pages and read my post from before. Doing it sporatically makes it safe to abuse :-)

Stay safe.

I should have put that in there too. my info is ONLY if you are going to use the supplment on a daily or continuing basis. Of course loading on 200mg is not going to cause any real issues if you don't do it often.. again, the real problem is with causing a permanent inbalance in your neurochemistry