2c-e

[shizerbeard]

OK, got some 2c-e on its way to me.

Have only recently got into psychedelics (had done some trippy stuff but nothing groundbreaking until a few months ago or something) but had 3 snorted doses of 2c-b a couple of weeks ago. Before that i had only done LSD 4 times.

since i snorted all of my 2c-b, im going to use my 50mg 2c-e as 2 20mg oral doses and one snorted dose (unsure of how much to snort, ill gauge it from my oral experience.)

whats everyones view of this stuff? how similar is it to 2c-b and whats the main differences?

Cheers guys, ill post a report when ive tried it.

[Mona Lisa]

If I were you, I'd only do, say, 12mg for your first time since 2ce can have a dark side/head fuck to it. You could always up your dosage for your second time.

Apparently, 2cb is more recreational with more euphoria than 2ce. Less headfuck.

2ce on the other hand is reported to have more depth to it and is supposed to be even more visual than 2cb.. It's been described as a 'difficult but rewarding substance'. It's allegedly quite interesting, not unlike acid. Music can be fascinating with the trippiness coming in waves, according to reports; Wonderful CEVs with lots of flowing bright neon colours. A strong awareness of the duality of good and evil/darkness and light within the world, even within a song, say some, ;)

Hardly any body load or comedown, etc. but sleep can be difficult if taken within 12 hours.

[shizerbeard]

Cheers mona :) appreciate it

sounds all good - though im defintley going to go higher than 12mg after reading some trip reports. Might lower my initial dose slightly though, maybe to 18mg.

2c-b to me, was strange, but good. I felt almost normal in a lot of ways, apart from amazing and breathtaking opened and closed eye visuals all over my vision. everything was moving and bending and stuff with realistic looking patterns going all over any surface. Worktops/tables had this weird 3D depth thing if you get me - looked as if i could literally stick my hand right "into" the pattern.

I have some benzos at the ready should it go tits up

[Mona Lisa]

Cheers mona :) appreciate it

sounds all good - though im defintley going to go higher than 12mg after reading some trip reports. Might lower my initial dose slightly though, maybe to 18mg.

2c-b to me, was strange, but good. I felt almost normal in a lot of ways, apart from amazing and breathtaking opened and closed eye visuals all over my vision. everything was moving and bending and stuff with realistic looking patterns going all over any surface. Worktops/tables had this weird 3D depth thing if you get me - looked as if i could literally stick my hand right "into" the pattern.

I have some benzos at the ready should it go tits upOnly you can decide but I'd still advise caution for your first time. But in saying this, I think you'll be fine because you were able to handle your overdose of the JWH-018 and also the fact you've tried acid. 2ce also appears to be reasonably safe, physically, though this is still only conjecture as it's a research chemical.

The problem with 18mg is that it could feel perhaps 4x stronger than 12mg due to its exponential rise per mg dose increase. There is another report on how strong 12mg felt that I'm sure you've recently read on another forum :)

[weaselknot]

caution advised also. I've had 2c-i up to a 40 mg dose and it seemed to have a pretty linear dose response curve. never done 2c-b, but it should be similar to 2c-i (the only difference being the halogen atom). 2c-e on the other hand, I found to be hard to dose. the difference between 10 mg and 15 mg was astronomical. 10 mg, I thought was eye candy with some interesting thought patterns (similar to 3 good hits of acid or a few grams of shrooms... somewhere between 13-15mg (scale not quite that accurate) it became a different creature entirely. I found the body load indescribable. not unpleasant, but by no means comfortable. signals became entirely scrambled, incoherently so.. I kept thinking maybe I had peed myself. I could not close my eyes and shrug off the outside world because I was grounded to my body by the weird body load. So I was stuck with my eyes open, and couldn't find any reference points that would, in fact, stay reference points. (as in I was stuck in the physical world because I couldn't just shut shut my eyes and be transported into some inner wonderland). This was quite disconcerting. Other people also noticed the exponential dose response curve. 2c-halogen (b,c,i) it's not. the ethyl grouping on there makes it strange. Have fun, it wasn't scary at all. But not entirely pleasant at all times. It's way beyond 3-d wavy bendy patterns.

[shizerbeard]

haha cheers for that weaselknot

i might even taper it down to about 15-16mg if thats the case. Want to tread with caution but i do want a strong experience of this substance too.

[Mona Lisa]

Will read your report with interest :)

[GOA]

Like pointed out in another thread, 2C-E is especially visual with darker, introspective undertones. It is also good to note that it is the most potent of the 2C's, and more than 20mg would be considered a very heavy experience. 15mg is a good first experience dose.

[shizerbeard]

noted.

Im doing this tonight, folks!

[shizerbeard]

the report:

Me and a friend dropped caps of 2c-e at around 8pm last night. I had 18mg, he had 12mg (as no experience with psychedlics previosuly.)

we chilled, and had a couple of joints (mate had picked up some great weed) and after half an hour we started to feel pretty good. Slight uncomfortable bodyload but have had much much worse. Nice euphoric body buzz built up that stayed for the whole trip. Actually i felt fine the whole time, apart from the occasional bout of nausea that only ever lasted 10 mins tops.

After an hour everything got really bright, but it took 2 full hours from dropping for visuals to begin. They started slowly but pretty quickly it was full blown triptastic. Corners of the ceiling looked like moving waterfalls, the room kept changing shape ane getting bigger and smaller. The curtains seemed alive and the whole room ended up dancing to the music (not the people, the actual room.)

I kept zoning in and out of reality (could speak for maybe 10 mins then spent the next 10 mins in a world of my own, this happened quite a lot)

And the peaks seemed to come in wave after wave after wave. for hours. At least 5 hours i'd say.

I went into the guys bathroom and all the paint "melted" away leaving only bare wood. The carpet on the ground turned into wormy sludge.

At this point i received a phone call from an unknown number, didnt answer it. 2 seconds later get a call from my girlfriend - that was the police on the phone who want a statement from me tonight! NOOOOOOOOOOOO, thatll have to wait til tomorrow.

Rolling spliffs was even harder than on acid, everything seemed so complex and hard to do. Lumps of tobacco turned into a massive spider that almost freaked me out for a minute when i was crawling along the table...had to touch it a few times to confirm it was just backy. Then the weed i was putting in the joint started "wriggling" and it was like it was some sort of rainforest insect.

Definite similarities from visuals of 2c-b. Though the 2c-b visuals seemed more pattern based, if only a bit.

Worktops, surfaces and screens appeared to be as if they were covered in water with ripples and water like movements.

A still desktop theme on someones PC came to life for a moment.

Music was confusing, again it sounded like it was all around me but i could hear somethings and not others, and it kept getting really loud out of nowhere then back to normal.

Again had problems with "bugs" as the coffee table was suddenly covered in these wee ants running alll over it.

Quite a lot of bright colours also by now, purple, red, green were the most common.

Someone gave me a hot chocolate which was amazing, i could see worlds and animals thhrough the hot chocolate, it appeared transparent even though it was dark brown.

Every time i went to the bathroom sounded like people were screaming loudly, which they were not. Was geting very confused at this point too with a lot of stuff said consisting of "ehhhhhhh, what?" or "what the fuck?" or "what the fuck we doing?"

It was a bit strange when my arms turned into cracked dirt (it looked like that anyway) but after that most of the trip was over (it was 5am)

Left my mates house, smoked a j on the way home and BANG - another peak. Was sunlight by then but no one was about, the bricks to the tenement blocks were all moving and interchanging and changing colours etc.

Got home, something to eat, benzo down the hatch, fell asleep about 6am. Got a decent sleep at least a few hours. Woke up 2pm with the police knocking on the door for a statement, im not in trouble but fuck not what you need day after! Today feel totally fine...

Really enjoyed this stuff. I found it almost exactly like acid, the buzz isnt as good acid but not far behhind, and apart from the nausea, the visuals were again really good.

[Mona Lisa]

the report:

Me and a friend dropped caps of 2c-e at around 8pm last night. I had 18mg, he had 12mg (as no experience with psychedlics previosuly.)

we chilled, and had a couple of joints (mate had picked up some great weed) and after half an hour we started to feel pretty good. Slight uncomfortable bodyload but have had much much worse. Nice euphoric body buzz built up that stayed for the whole trip. Actually i felt fine the whole time, apart from the occasional bout of nausea that only ever lasted 10 mins tops.

After an hour everything got really bright, but it took 2 full hours from dropping for visuals to begin. They started slowly but pretty quickly it was full blown triptastic. Corners of the ceiling looked like moving waterfalls, the room kept changing shape ane getting bigger and smaller. The curtains seemed alive and the whole room ended up dancing to the music (not the people, the actual room.)

I kept zoning in and out of reality (could speak for maybe 10 mins then spent the next 10 mins in a world of my own, this happened quite a lot)

And the peaks seemed to come in wave after wave after wave. for hours. At least 5 hours i'd say.

I went into the guys bathroom and all the paint "melted" away leaving only bare wood. The carpet on the ground turned into wormy sludge.

At this point i received a phone call from an unknown number, didnt answer it. 2 seconds later get a call from my girlfriend - that was the police on the phone who want a statement from me tonight! NOOOOOOOOOOOO, thatll have to wait til tomorrow.

Rolling spliffs was even harder than on acid, everything seemed so complex and hard to do. Lumps of tobacco turned into a massive spider that almost freaked me out for a minute when i was crawling along the table...had to touch it a few times to confirm it was just backy. Then the weed i was putting in the joint started "wriggling" and it was like it was some sort of rainforest insect.

Definite similarities from visuals of 2c-b. Though the 2c-b visuals seemed more pattern based, if only a bit.

Worktops, surfaces and screens appeared to be as if they were covered in water with ripples and water like movements.

A still desktop theme on someones PC came to life for a moment.

Music was confusing, again it sounded like it was all around me but i could hear somethings and not others, and it kept getting really loud out of nowhere then back to normal.

Again had problems with "bugs" as the coffee table was suddenly covered in these wee ants running alll over it.

Quite a lot of bright colours also by now, purple, red, green were the most common.

Someone gave me a hot chocolate which was amazing, i could see worlds and animals thhrough the hot chocolate, it appeared transparent even though it was dark brown.

Every time i went to the bathroom sounded like people were screaming loudly, which they were not. Was geting very confused at this point too with a lot of stuff said consisting of "ehhhhhhh, what?" or "what the fuck?" or "what the fuck we doing?"

It was a bit strange when my arms turned into cracked dirt (it looked like that anyway) but after that most of the trip was over (it was 5am)

Left my mates house, smoked a j on the way home and BANG - another peak. Was sunlight by then but no one was about, the bricks to the tenement blocks were all moving and interchanging and changing colours etc.

Got home, something to eat, benzo down the hatch, fell asleep about 6am. Got a decent sleep at least a few hours. Woke up 2pm with the police knocking on the door for a statement, im not in trouble but fuck not what you need day after! Today feel totally fine...

Really enjoyed this stuff. I found it almost exactly like acid, the buzz isnt as good acid but not far behhind, and apart from the nausea, the visuals were again really good.
Good report and pleased it went well for you and your friend. :)

Now that you've tried both cb and ce, which of the two do you prefer? I get the impression that they share a similar degree of body load with cb being more about dealing with excessive mucous and coughing, whereas ce's body load is more to do with finding it hard to get settled into a comfortable position and perhaps more nausea issues (though SWIM never experienced nausea from it herself).

Had the impression ce lasts far longer and has more introspection and distortion of thought than cb. Funny that you should mention reds, greens and purples, for SWIM noticed yellows and pinks more.

Also loved the idea of seeing animals and other worlds in a cup of cocoa, perhaps like looking through a crystal ball...

[shizerbeard]

Good report and pleased it went well for you and your friend. :)

Now that you've tried both cb and ce, which of the two do you prefer? I get the impression that they share a similar degree of body load with cb being more about dealing with excessive mucous and coughing, whereas ce's body load is more to do with finding it hard to get settled into a comfortable position and perhaps more nausea issues (though SWIM never experienced nausea from it herself).

Had the impression ce lasts far longer and has more introspection and distortion of thought than cb. Funny that you should mention reds, greens and purples, for SWIM noticed yellows and pinks more.

Also loved the idea of seeing animals and other worlds in a cup of cocoa, perhaps like looking through a crystal ball...

I only snorted cb so dont know which i prefer
but the ce lasted AGES in comparsion to a lot of things ive taken. 2 hours + to come up, 5 hours peak, 2-3 hours afterglow before i went to bed feeling not too trippy (but i did notice some minor rippling even when i woke up still!)

The bodyload was a bit annoying, couldnt get comphy as you said but it wasnt overly bad, ive had worse from a number of things, including butylone, 4-meo-pcp and maybe even the beginning of my first LSD trip. The nausea was the only really annoying part but that just came and went every so often so didnt detract from the trip at all really.

Id have to try 2c-b orally next time, but i REALLY enjoyed this 2c-e. Might try 2c-i next if i can find anyone who is kind :D

[weaselknot]

great report, good shit eh?:)

[shizerbeard]

oh aye!!!!!!!!

[FriendlyToker]

I have about 13mg of 2C-E dissolved in ethanol. I wanted to take 3mg orally (without swallowing, trying to absorb most by the mouth, so it kicks in...at all), and then 10mg some other time.
But right now I'm not sure. People report use of 12mg at once as a normal experience, thus I'm not sure whether should I waste that 3mg. I really wanted to try it, though, but without a full-blown trip - it's about to be my very first psychedelic experience and I was rather looking forward to getting used to the feeling first, with some but not many visuals at most.
Any advices?



EDIT: Yeah, couldn't wait. Dropped around 10mgs, spilling a bit (though I don't know how much) like an idiot. Toker, you idiot. How could you spill 2c-e around your bathroom like an idiot? You idiot.

I will report, hopefully, on "live" mode. ;)


Time: ~1h after intake
Time dilated enormously. Pupils are normal. I'm feeling uncomfortable on my stomach, but it's not something really bad - I consider it normal, as I'm on my third day of no-codeine-intake (thus, constipation changes to diarrhoea slowly).
Everything is like after a puff of smoke. Psychedelic ambient's on speakers. Everything is alright.
Gonna prepare 450mg of C - just in case of a bad trip. And, hell, because I like it.
...as I have finished writing that, I felt vibration under my seat. :)

Time: ~1.20h ai
Tightening in my throat and brain, music is 3d and... hell, at this very moment everything starts to float! :D I am excited, nervous. I feel adrenaline rush. Gonna finish C extraction.

Time: ~2.10h ai
Tightening is felt more, my legs are "weak", and things with little patterns (carpets, letters etc) float a bit. More of a panic attack than a full blown psychodelia, pardon me. Goes on nice, I can feel being... here.

Time: ~2.40 ai
Tightening is weird (and I start every paragraphh with the same word, weird). A bit of chaotic, so to speak, feeling about the computer. I need peace. 450mg of Codeine down the hatch. Psychedelic effects unfortunately "not enough" for me - I'm looking forward to psilocybin. But I'm enjoying these as they last! Better to dose less and live than dose too much and trip out. Positive attitude. I just realised few things about me. I realised I am somebody here, I realised I count in this world. Not as a statistic, but as a human being.

[shizerbeard]

Will be watching this one

My mate has 12mg of this stuff for his first psychedelic experience and he just had a mild body buzz, with very very light visuals only just noticeable.

[FriendlyToker]

Time: ~3h After Intake
450mg of C settled in, warm peace, floaty legs. Very minor visuals, as I said: most of them were more of an overexcitement ;) But I still consider my towel a microcosmos. :)
Thank you for your interest, mr Shizerbeard. I ultimately felt at peace with you, somehow. I wish all these feelings I get on empathogens or right now, on psychedelics, could be felt by everyone. We here are friendly attached towards everything and everyone, but psychedelics let us realise that it actually is there, that it's not just a matter of words and letters.

[shizerbeard]

glad your enjoying it friendly toker

its defintley best to start small with this one if your not accustomed to this type of thing,

If i had taken 2c-e as my first psychedelic, i think 18mg would have blown me away but also possibly result in a bad trip.

At the dose youve taken you should be able to get a feel for it without risking a bad trip.

[Mona Lisa]

Glad you enjoyed it, Friendly Toker. :) I agree it's better to start off small than risk a bad experience by dropping off the deep end too soon. I also noticed it takes hours to reach the peak and the plateau comes in waves, so you think you're coming down when you suddenly find you're going up another wave and you're coming up again :D

[GOA]

Thanks for sharing your first psychedelic trip with us, FriendlyToker! 2C-E was a good choice for a new experience. Typically, most people start off on shrooms, though I find 2C-E a lot more managable than psilocin/cybin. Most of the 2C-X visuals consist of colour enhancement and fluid-like shifting, and perhaps a few other notable things like strobing, and unusual sensations, like the tightening/plastic feeling you described. Anyways, glad it was your cup of tea. Good luck with future voyages!

[FriendlyToker]

I didn't really get overpowered by it, and I am happy of it. I loved the higher amount of details in everything, shifting patterns, and the wind on the carpet (I stared at it all the time, it looked beautiful). These were very light, though. I'm very looking forward to another experience, but I have no idea what kind of psychedelic I should look forward to. I'm rather looking forward to that visual enhancement and shifting patterns. I think 2C-B could be a good choice. Or psilocybe, but I'm not really sure on whether I should get p.cubensis or p.azurescens.
Thank you for your answers.

[shizerbeard]

Most of the 2C-X visuals consist of colour enhancement and fluid-like shifting, and perhaps a few other notable things like strobing

bang on good sir

Surfaces look like they are covered in water every time i try a new 2c-x, and i noticed the strobe lighting massivley the last time i tried one (2c-t-2)

LSD was my first proper psychedelic, it was so positive (the experience)

def gets my seal of approval for beginnertrippers

[GOA]

Forgot to mention, CEVs are prominent in the 2C-E experience as well. Could really get lost in the patterning.

And yeah shizer, with a mild dose, LSD is a wicked and positive first time psyche exp.

[FriendlyToker]

LSD is like Saint Graal here, in Poland. You'll sooner get DOx or BDF on a paper here. Or just a paper.
I find 2C-E very okay, because, as you already mentioned, it didn't fuck with my head. It was just some visuals, feeling of throat tightening (or "melting"), but nothing that could throw me into full blown bad-trip. I still think dose was too low to see anything special (around 10mg). But I still got in love with floating towels :)

[enduin]

Got some friends in Poland, they told me Saint Graal was polish wodka :D

[FriendlyToker]

I have no idea about any vodkas or beers available in Poland. Unlike most Poles I'm very uninterested in alcohol. I'm, so to speak, against it. Ruined my family, my childhood, my mental condition to some extent. I'm recovering with a little help of psychedelics and empathogens, which make me see that I can be empathic, show me the beauty of connection and the fact of being. I'd be still walking blindly in a fog if I didn't experience some psychoactives, like empathogens back in the time, thoughtful mind under influence of cannabinoids and the feeling of being here and now 2C-E provided me with.
I don't know if I'm doing right. But I feel better. The main problem is, when I tell someone about the experience and the way it changed me, and when I mention that I feel BETTER after it, the second person always downpresses my happiness as just drug-induced and points out the miserable way of obtaining it.
This is depressing, I'm telling you. Even though I always laugh at it, it makes that sad tingle in my soul.

[enduin]

Alcohol is actually more harmful and dangerous than a good bunch of illegal drugs. Still it can be pleasurable in moderation, like every psychoactive substance, but fuck with it and you'll be ruined, and ruin other's lives too, like you said. So no wonder you hate it, you have all the rights.
Regarding tour experience I tell ya: if you feel better and are not harming anyone you are doing the right thing, period. Don't let other people turn you down, people are different, and very few times they understand each other...
But here you got so many people sharing your way of thinkin!

[GOA]

Alcohol is actually more harmful and dangerous than a good bunch of illegal drugs. Still it can be pleasurable in moderation, like every psychoactive substance, but fuck with it and you'll be ruined, and ruin other's lives too, like you said. So no wonder you hate it, you have all the rights.
Regarding tour experience I tell ya: if you feel better and are not harming anyone you are doing the right thing, period. Don't let other people turn you down, people are different, and very few times they understand each other...
But here you got so many people sharing your way of thinkin!


Words of wisdom, my friend... words of wisdom. :p

[Mona Lisa]

I always feel awful the day after taking meph (300-400mg bombed) but I feel even worse from too much alcohol. I can rememer feeling rotten the morning after just three pints (one normal strongbow 5%; a pint of their 7.5%; and a pint of 5% lager later on that evening).

But bear in mind I have a low tolerance for alcohol. In moderation (two pints or less), I find it relaxing and delicious.

[weaselknot]

i always feel I've poisoned myself when I drink alcohol. Still do it sometimes, though. I've exposed myself to a few rather nasty chemicals at one time or another (in my reckless days of youth- think large tubs of solvents, unacceptable amounts of vapourised iodine, strong acids and bases, and the like) and I still think alcohol has done the most damage to my body and mind.

[Mona Lisa]

Would have to agree, especially as it's also so fattening:o

[ashxcore]

Yeah, I hate the hypocrisy of my friends who like to get wasted but give me shit about tripping on the weekends.

Your drug of choice is one of base pleasures and mine is one that allows for the possibility of gaining something after the experience is over.

My drug is more benign than yours, and more meaningful. Yours is just more socially acceptable and sponsored.

:mad:

I've yet to take a drug that made me feel as bad the next day as when I've had a little too much to drink.

[shizerbeard]

The only drug thats given me a worse hangover than booze would probably be piperazines.....


e mixed with large quanities of booze is probably the cloest to hell ive came to on a comedown.......but the amount of booze drunk alone would have had me feeling shit the next day, but with the e's - FUCK

[GOA]

Weird. BZP alone doesn't really give me negative effects. Though I only do about 100mg at a time, and use it more as a pick-me-up rather than recreationally. Never tried combining it with alcohol because that combo just seems contradictory. I generally don't drink alcohol anyways because I'm prone to hangovers. Maybe it's because my tolerance is low, but even drinking very little makes me feel like shit. Plus the enticing effects don't last long enough to make the shitty-phase worth enduring.

[valseedian]

Weird. BZP alone doesn't really give me negative effects. Though I only do about 100mg at a time, and use it more as a pick-me-up rather than recreationally. Never tried combining it with alcohol because that combo just seems contradictory. I generally don't drink alcohol anyways because I'm prone to hangovers. Maybe it's because my tolerance is low, but even drinking very little makes me feel like shit. Plus the enticing effects don't last long enough to make the shitty-phase worth enduring.

QFE, the last drink I ever had was the day before I turned 21...

well, maybe I've had 1 or 3 since.. but I used to be a very social drinker before I began smoking.. When it finally became available to me, It lost it's spark. right up to my 21st I drank twice a week... twice a month to the point that I was undoubtedly /DRUNK/... but I can count on 1 hand the times I've had alchohol since then.

Part of it was that I never spent any money on it, it was always just available for free.. now I feel my money has better uses.

people say weed makes you stupid.. it may dull your intelect, but alchohol can reduce even the most resolved, responsible adult into a blind delerium..
sure, I may spend a few extra bucks on munchies, but if anything I'm more paranoid about making truly disastrous decisions on marijuana, if anything more careful. booz makes you feel invincible, dissociated... when you add in analgesia you've got PCP... atleast with PCP you feel like a million bucks the next day.



it's a neurotoxin.. a bacterial fecal matter... the only reason it's become soo hard-fought is because of time honored stigma... back before we had sewage systems, and water treatment and other such advancements water wasn't safe to drink.. before we knew anthing about microbes or any real chemistry was understood.. beer was sterile.

I could go on and on, but lets move on shall we..


</rant>

I'll add more to this another time, I'm ready for sleep now.

[GOA]

people say weed makes you stupid.. it may dull your intelect, but alchohol can reduce even the most resolved, responsible adult into a blind delerium..
sure, I may spend a few extra bucks on munchies, but if anything I'm more paranoid about making truly disastrous decisions on marijuana, if anything more careful. booz makes you feel invincible, dissociated... when you add in analgesia you've got PCP... atleast with PCP you feel like a million bucks the next day.

Agreed. 'Cept for the PCP part. :rolleyes: Never tried that shit before.

[FriendlyToker]

Alcohol is actually more harmful and dangerous than a good bunch of illegal drugs. Still it can be pleasurable in moderation, like every psychoactive substance, but fuck with it and you'll be ruined, and ruin other's lives too, like you said. So no wonder you hate it, you have all the rights.
Regarding tour experience I tell ya: if you feel better and are not harming anyone you are doing the right thing, period. Don't let other people turn you down, people are different, and very few times they understand each other...
But here you got so many people sharing your way of thinkin!


I have nothing else but to agree. After my first use of empathogen (Doves), and yesterday's experience on Jax, I have understood that I have alot of empathy inside and all I need is to accept myself.
After my use of 2C-E I have felt that I am here, I exist, and it gave me joy.
And these thoughts are following me every day. I can more easily get interested into conversations, I can feel more secure being myself. The most interesting is, however, the sense of utter joy some words gave me. The feeling of connection and acceptance your last sentence provided. I can feel it, but on the other hand I'm rationalizing my thoughts, thinking it's just my mind which connects so much significance to this feeling and the need to express it, thus I'm starting to get a bit uncomfortable with my thoughts because they are so empathic. This is also because of this world we live in - I have experienced alot of offense at expressing love by warm words, just because suspicion of the empathic person being on drugs. Like just because being on drugs changes the real feeling, and on the other hand, like every suspicion is right. What if a person just needs some love? In our society it is mentally downpressed, thus doesn't express it. And if does, he/she might be under suspicion of doing drugs, rather than understanding the real need. Because it's easier to say "you're doing drugs" than "you have difficult situation", and put to jail rather than provide therapy.
These are some serious times. All I can see 'round us is just violence and crime. It's time to realize, centralize and socialize.

[enduin]

I'm happy for you!
The only thing I'd like to suggest you is: don't rationalize on your thoughts or feelings! I've spent the most of my life rationalizing and I can tell you that trying to rationalize something beautiful you are feeling or thinking is just like scratching the paint off of an amazing picture to see how it's made and what's beneath.

[shizerbeard]

BZP/pipes + lots of booze = fantastic buzz

Has me and a few mates uncontrollabley talking about shit for hours upon hours, with some excellent euphoria too

But the day after is just not worth it - real feeling of death!

[FriendlyToker]

I'm happy for you!
The only thing I'd like to suggest you is: don't rationalize on your thoughts or feelings! I've spent the most of my life rationalizing and I can tell you that trying to rationalize something beautiful you are feeling or thinking is just like scratching the paint off of an amazing picture to see how it's made and what's beneath.

Your words feel very true. I understand you and want to feel that, but I still can't help feeling strange to my own thoughts. These feelings are beautiful, but at the same time I think they are not right. I want to express, but I know nobody else will understand. This, with the slowly building feeling of being unwanted by people, or alien to them makes my mentality fight all the time. I want to be a good person, I want to be liked, but at the same time I think I'm not worth it, I'm not positive and I'm boring and dull.

This makes me suffer. Empathogen experiences took the edge off these feelings, not only under the influence, but also in everyday life. I can't say whether it is going better or worse right now. I'm clueless and I'm still under the impression that I'm worthless.

[GOA]

Your words feel very true. I understand you and want to feel that, but I still can't help feeling strange to my own thoughts. These feelings are beautiful, but at the same time I think they are not right. I want to express, but I know nobody else will understand. This, with the slowly building feeling of being unwanted by people, or alien to them makes my mentality fight all the time. I want to be a good person, I want to be liked, but at the same time I think I'm not worth it, I'm not positive and I'm boring and dull.

This makes me suffer. Empathogen experiences took the edge off these feelings, not only under the influence, but also in everyday life. I can't say whether it is going better or worse right now. I'm clueless and I'm still under the impression that I'm worthless.

I used to have the same attitude as you. I used to care too much about what people think. I would walk down the street and feel like every person that passed by me was mocking me in their mind.

I'm not sure when or how I got over my issues exactly, but I do know that drugs (especially psychedelics) helped break down the social barriers, in a very positive way. Pretty soon I intend to cut back on all my drug use so I can begin further progression. At the point right now that I'm altered almost every day, and after awhile of that, you truly begin to appreciate sobriety. :p

[piracetam101]

I think your looking too deeply on the subject. Take your drug experience for what it is. I'm sure it was therapeutic to some degree. When your so concerned about what society thinks of your drug use your missing out on refecting back of overly postivie experences.

Psychadelics open new parts of your brain you never would have used before. Use this as a tool for new methods of analyazation and thinking processes. Some of the current theorems of the universe were crafted after a small dose of LSD.

MDMA/MDA are possibly the most therapeutic experiences one can have. Some say that every roll you have is the equivalent of 5 years to therapy. It surely put a smile on my face even days after it was over. Hell just thinking about rolling makes you happy. I wouldn't trade those experiences for the world.

Cannabis is great for getting intoxicated on a daily basis. Suddenly, life is just a little more bearable. Mental, refreshment, delight to say the least.

DMT is said to be such a profound religious experience that is so intense and reflective of who you are as a person that it has actually cured herion addicts becasue they relalized there life was too precious to be wasted doing heroin.

All in all, if psychedelics don't have postivie experiences for you, you might want to try being a better person. A lot of people have bad experiences becasue they do bad things and lock them away in their brain but psychedelics resurface those thoughts and force you to deal with them.

Now do you really care what other people think? You have to realize that not everyone is as educated about chemicals as we are. They don't know anybetter. Try spreading some knowledge but bewarned people can be very difficult.

They have made the decision not to do drugs and will do everything they can to make you seem like a worse person so they can feel better about themselves and the decisions theyve made.

As a last note, if your depressed at all try some 5-HTP, piracetam, or some other mood boosting vitamins. They make all the difference with dealing with games your mind likes to play on you. Especially guilt and negativity.

[Mona Lisa]

Good post. ^^

But I have concluded that many people are simply not going to understand so it's easier just to be discrete. They don't need to know, especially as it would only cause them to worry or be judgemental. Could also get you into legal trouble or ostracized. WHile I love the idea in theory, I don't think it's realistic apart from perhaps publishing an online anonymous blog or articles.

[piracetam101]

Good post. ^^

But I have concluded that many people are simply not going to understand so it's easier just to be discrete. They don't need to know, especially as it would only cause them to worry or be judgemental. Could also get you into legal trouble or ostracized. WHile I love the idea in theory, I don't think it's realistic apart from perhaps publishing an online anonymous blog or articles.

Your right, its imperative to use caution when talking to people. But from the sounds of his post I thought he was maybe dealing with a lost group of friends or maybe a gf giving him trouble.

Obviously who give a fuck if some random people are giving you shit, they're not worth your time or presence.

[FriendlyToker]

The random people can become your friends in future. They are worth thinking of.

Becoming a better person is always important. I'm trying to achieve it every day, even though it's a slow and difficult process, but nobody said it's going to be easy. And understanding the fact of being better every day gives me the joy of moving forward with my skills and my understanding. This is what is important to me.

The feeling of guilt is slowly subsiding, I can feel it going away even day by day. I'm sorting my life, which was not really colourful. Which is why I said about alcohol - I have spent six years of my life listening to alcohol-induced fights of my parents. I have lost all my childhood. These days were not easy - being thrown chair at is not the best memory to have from all of my life. I was scared of myself, scared of my thoughts, because I was always told I'm a failure. I was wrecked, and even thought I know it was not normal, I couldn't help myself. The case got out after I've been caught with possession of MJ. I have realised it is the time to bring it out and tell the police about what is happening.
All I have received from them was a need to go to therapies. As mentally retarded. Because, as far as I have seen and read on the internet, being addicted to alcohol makes people a great actors. They can behave more trustful than any president. They denied anything. It was a nail to the coffin of my confidence.
But then, after good few months, my father realised the shit that is going on. Mostly because he was the only one to go to work - even though he was drunk. He was the owner of the small business they have. He realised, and we were waiting. Waiting until my mother gets an attack. Shaking, she was driven to the hospital. After three days, she came back. Two days later, she was lying on the ground around broken glass in stupor again. After another about half a year she was weak, dying. She got driven to private rehab, from where she could leave without any problem. And besides she paid for it, and she paid good, she came back in fury, as she was driven there with force. She was too weak to throw any more chairs. She was too weak to stand up. She got in rage. She shouted at everything, threw anything, even fired people from the business. She started drinking again. To cut saying the same thing again, I will say she attended two more rehabs from then - last one in early June, this year.
Now she doesn't drink. She still is a downpressor, so to speak. I'm still feeling unsure about my thoughts, I'm still sure I'm not alright, I'm worthless, and that my thoughts are unpure, bad, and my every behavior, move and action is watched. Sounds more or less like amphetamine withdrawal, but I reassure you, only stimulants I have used are nicotine, caffeine and empathogens - Doves and, few days ago, half a Jax. Doves done in June and that Jax days earlier, I can feel, showed that I can be good. I can feel happy. I can be myself and I am accepted.
My change started then. I felt more confident, some of my anxiety washed away. I felt that I can start changing myself and that is the only way to going forward. Easy - by going forward. With life, with understanding, with skills and anything I can explore and master.

Holy fuck. What have I just written. I can feel tears slowly showing in my eyes. And I still think right now, if I'm not an idiot. If that's not weird, if that's not going to be perceived bad, and most of all - if I won't sound like a child in a fog. Like I feel I am.

Sorry for bursting it out. I was driven by these little flashes of need for some attention, love and empathy. The feelings I always wanted to give, but never even learned how to feel.

Either move this to another topic somewhere in hyde-park, or we'll ruin the main topic of this... topic.

[enduin]

Relax man, it's all right. I PMed you

[GOA]

Like I said FriendlyToker, I was in the same headspace as you a few years back. I am greatly empathetic for your situation. I grew up in the same environment as you, my parents were alcoholics and hated each other day in, day out. I used to feel very badly, thinking my parents were only staying together because of me. Psychedelics were a big part of my healing experience, but changing my environment while seeking new friends and ditching malicious ones, was an essential part to regaining my happiness and confidence. If people cause you agony, don't get trappyed and try not to associate with them. Don't let obstacles bring you down!