Addiction

[shatteredparadigm]

I honestly feel guilty posting this. I know a lot of you respectfully use the chemicals found on these threads. Maybe someone will relate, maybe not. I'll give you some history, if you want to read it, I appreciate it, if not you can skip down to where the lines are to get to the real trip experience.

Addiction runs in my family. Only three years ago I put my younger cousin in the ground... he overdosed on heroin. The next year my aunt was found dead from alcohol poisoning.

Ever since I was a kid I loved stimulants. Used to grind up no-doze and ephedrine and mix it with a pot of espresso. Knew I could never try crack or meth cause there would be no way in hell I'd ever escape.

Diagnosed with ADD as a kid, never sought treatment until college. Methylphenidate (Ritalin), oh god how I loved it. It's cocaine for kids, a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Made me happy, social, connected with people, and I could get stuff done... only problem is I couldn't control my dosing. Sounds stupid, but I lost a lot of friends during that time. I'm still recovering from their loss... why they won't speak to me anymore.

Then I found mephedrone. A high like ritalin with a much more tolerable comedown (or so I thought). I found out the hard way that mephedrone can latch it's claws into you and suck your soul dry if you're not careful.


:(==============================:(

Received 7g of meph. 2 from my favorite vendor and 5g from a vendor that's cheap as hell right now. They came at about the same time. I'd been experimenting a bit before, lifetime total was 12g over a month and a half. I thought I knew what I was doing.

I can't give you specifics, I can only say that the first day was about a gram, second day 2-3 and the third day 3-4. I burned through 7g in 3 days. Maybe some of you have beaten that. Maybe that's nothing to you. It was a lot to me and I could feel it by the end. Wasn't taking it to feel euphoric, I was taking it to avoid the crash.

The crash began the next day. Forced myself to go to work. Took naps in my office but had sleep paralysis waking up. Scary stuff having your mind awake but your body still asleep.

Took off early and went home and crashed. Crashed hard. Slept for 24 hours. When I finally woke up, I felt the most crushing despair I've felt in my life. I knew I could fight it off, I knew there were worse drugs to come down from. I walked around the block, it was so surreal, nothing mattered it was like I was daydream walking in my past.

The past few days have been hell... the emptiness is pretty potent. I swore I wouldn't touch the shit again, threw out all my crap. I could do it, I mean it's not even a real "drug". <sigh> Then my shipment arrived that I ordered while doped. Fuck! It won... Even worse no matter how much I do I don't feel happy.

Fucking sucks, those are all the signs of addiction right there.

Trying to figure out what to do. I capped a lot of the meph and mixed it with 5-http and gaba simply to keep from breaking appart the caps and snorting it. Hoping to wean off that way. Might see an addiction counselor. I won't be a rat, I refuse to give anybody any more fuel to the anti-drug war. Just because I can't fucking take it doesn't mean others can't use it responsibly.


If you have any stories, please share. Tell me I'm not alone. It doesn't have to be about meph, that's why I titled this thread Addiction share anything, help me, help the community.

[TITO 78]

Well I've been addicted to illegal stuff, what I did was not associate with any of my former freinds/users and delete all dealer phone numbers. I don't know that that helps with stuff you can get online. Perhaps you could cut up your credit cards, only use cash or something. The thing with stim addictions are they're near 100% mental unlike say opiates, mental addiction does fade after a month and really goes after 6 months and then a year (at least for me) so in that period you need to find a way to put as many obstacles in your way of getting it as possible. Maybe have someone handle your money, disconnect from the net. I dunno anything that means you can't get your hands on it.

Good luck man.

[weaselknot]

this sucks, I know. I was addicted to methamphetamine for about 9 years. out of that, several years was daily use. There were times when I'd run out and felt the total despair that your talking about. There's really not a whole lot that I know to say to help. Just remember, you WILL feel better, it may not seem like it now, but the best course is to just stop as soon as possible. Pretty hard when you've got something sitting right in front of you that your brain thinks will fix everything. Eat well and rest well. I don't know about the meph comedown, but the sleep paralysis and the nightmares from methamp are horrible.

With methamp, I couldn't put it down. The only thing that saved me was a trip to prison for manufacturing controlled dangerous substances. When I finally got out, I did try methamp a few more times here and there, but I finally figured out that negative consequences of stimulant abuse far outweigh the positive gratification that they give. It isn't prison really that deters me from stimulant abuse, it's the realization that what goes up- must come down.. hard. That is not to say that stimulants in general can't be useful or even fun. They are. They're just powerful substances that can take you places you really don't want to go. And weeks of total despair and fucking horrible thought patterns really aren't worth it.

My best advice is never, ever binge more than 24 hrs. For example, up all night friday- really start preparing to make yourself stop dosing by sat morning, There's not enough time in a weekend to recuperate for 2 nights of no sleep. Once you start using to keep yourself going at work Monday morning- you're fucked. I usually calculate 1 week of total suicidal despair for each night of euphoric bliss... One night of use ain't that bad, it's usually worth it, and if you keep a good perspective,the following few days can just be chalked up to the price you pay for fiddling with your synaptic superhighway. And then you let the old brain repair itself (or realign or whatever, you know what I mean)

two consecutive nights of use is rarely worth it... and if you think about it, if you're doing enough of anything to stay awake for 48hrs.. you can pretty much figure that you've crossed the line from "use" to "abuse".

Remember, don't get caught up in self loathing and shit just because some drug got the better of you. Stimulants are strong, learn and go on. It happens to the best of us. It doesn't mean you're weak. Drugs feel good, we just tend to forget that we have to pay double for artificial happiness. Sucks man, I'm sorry. It'll get better.

On another note, I'm in no way preaching. I love drugs. They're great. The idea that you can tell people what they can and can't put into their own fucking bodies is absolutely retarded. Drugs will teach you a lot, they also have the capability to really fuck your life up. simple enough.

[valseedian]

addiction also runs in my family. my father and I both smoke Mj daily, multiple times. as far as addictions go, it's not an incredibly bad one. I've had other bouts with addiction in the past.. that were much more.. harmful, enough for me to actually stop them.

from the age of 6 to 17 I was prescribed ritalin/adderal (usually around 2x as much as was 'reccommended' for boys of my incredibly small stature and body weight), as well as barbs to take me off them in the night.
I gave up adderal after 5 years of taking 30mg 2x daily because I didn't want to take it anymore. that comedown was a real bitch. I gained my bodyweight in 3 months. took me 4 years to get back down 1/2 as much.

I've also been on valume for over a month.. was up to 4 10mg's a day in the end... took me 3 weeks and 3 days to get through the first 50 and the last 50 were all in the next 8 days... but that was a fluke, my buddy quit his opiate habit and gave me his whole script so that he wouldn't take em anymore, almost 200 pills which I split with my best friend... when they were gone, I didn't realy know where to get any, and the absolute crushing unmotivation that followed made it almost impossible to find more considering I'd had no money.. so that situation kinda solved it'self.. I can take perks and valumes among others just fine without binging now.

I've smoked pot every day for the last 3 years (probably a month of total days gone without the whole time, for various reasons. I include the JWH's in my 'pot smoking' time because the high is the same. (i"ve been on doses of jwh for almost 2 months, larger ones twards the end... this drug is very easy to forget you've been overdosing on)



actually, that's a great post in and of itself. I've had alot of jwh. in 2 months, nearly 5 gms to myself I'm sure (ordered 10gm total, but I give alot away) of which 2 were in the last 2 weeks of that lol... when I started a 3mg hit would have me blitzed like a good gram of that green... tho I've been out of jwh for a bit, and my tolerance has fallen DRAMATICLY I was up to 15mg smoked, multiple hits, crossing with 50mg diphenhydramine and about 5mg oxycodone insuflated , every hour... and this binge lasted 6 days total... after which 15mg of jwh-018 was barely getting me stoned at all, and I decided, why not try 50mg... not a good idea for anyone thinking about doses larger than 20mg (that's even pushing it heavily). the tolerance build up of this is incredible, presuming you already have a cannabinoid tollerance. my mg scale breaking on me while I still had 400mg left wasn't good either (as I'd have to eyeball doses all day) and because I was used to such high doses, when my friends finally decided that they'd give it a try (all hell bent against my 'crack', but they couldn't find bud), I overdosed them by a longshot... further cementing their beleif that I smoke 'crack' lol...

in all fairness to me, there were 4 people I was 'sharing with', I took the first, largest hit and felt very good. I told my other buddy (my best friend, who's seen this chem many times with me before) that there was enough there for 2 hits each easy... but instead he dole's out the whole thing to everyone in 1 round (2x as much as I'd expected to give anyone...) and my pipe was basically clogged with JWH oil when it started, so that didn't help anyone I'm sure... I didn't actually measure the doses people were taking, as my scale was broken, and I was driving.. never a good idea

as far as crippling despair and unmotivation, I find the internet to be an awesome catalyst for that.. youtube can fix depression in 6 easy hours of 'fat kid' 'accident' and 'testicles' vidoes... I also find being completely sociopathic also helps with the depression.. I wish that were a joke....

[AtomicBambinoid]

Im really sorry to hear of your situation man i sympathise....

I used to smoke green daily and then also started taking other drugs aswell like coke, I started smoking when I was about 13-14 and finallty quit around 19-20, i was completely mentally addicted to green, i couldnt cope without it, i got pretty bad withdrawls from that, and also cos id been smoking it so long i didnt really know what normal life was like so sinking back into reality was painful,, but over the course of a couple of years with relapses and more attempts I now havent smoked weed in a long time and dont feel the need to smoke it either.

So my advice is stick in there and keep trying even if you fail, dont give yourself too much shit but dont forget the situation and remeber how good life actually is when your sober.....I was surprised at how good life was sober.

Also personnally i believe in god and if im in a really sticky situation i pray to him for help and that really helped me get out of my addictions.

Gd Luck dude,

[SuperGreenWarrior]

^AB^, nice to see a faithful person;), its a beautiful thing religon when its not taken out of context and people dont use its name in vien,,

back to the thread, SP you gotta get a reality check dude take some time off and apply yourself to some different things, you need also to realise that if you want to get over this you can, piece of cake just say to yourself "i can handle this" and accept all that it throws at you without backing off. walk toward the problem and it will loose its power, shy away and it will intensify.

its like tobbaco is physically addictive, and i quit a 40 a day habbit piece of piss, first two days had physical withdrawal and by the third i was completely over it, absolutley fine and no craving at all.
on the other hand its taken months and months to get over my weed habbit and to finally be sure that i dont want it anymore, and its argued by many that it is not physically addictive (allough most people that say that are active addicts:D). anyway the above showed me that my real problems with addiction were mind made, i could hanlde the pyhsical, but to get over the mental i had to really be steady as a rock in my plans to quit..

do you want to carry on as you are?, how much are you willing to give in order to change shit?

youve got to be willing to feel the short term discomfort, you have to embrace this, lock horns with it and deal with it because no withdrawal is as painfull as a whole life of addiction.


good luck to you SP, you know what you have to do,

now do it!:)

[AtomicBambinoid]

yeah woooo determination!!!!!!! and if u lapse then get back up again and go at it again!!!!!!!!!!

also maybe telling a good freind who can look out for you and give u a good gilt trip/stern stare sort of thing, that is a pretty good way of keeping it in check cos then youll think about how your degrading yourself.

and if u live near the counryside or can reach it easily then go for loads of walks around nature.

again...Good luck...

(Cheers for the comment on faith dude:D)

[valseedian]

too much of faith is NEEDING everyone else to beleive the same thing as you for assurance that the -obviously- impossible beleifs you hold aren't that far-fetched.

religion is fine when it's sole purpose is to better yourself. when it comes down to 'I'm right your wrong' our massively opinionated and exaggerativly different religios sects/religions become a righteous name in which to kill. 'tho shalt not kill...... unless, of course, they don't beleive the same things as you, then stone/hang/burn/drown the witch!"

I'm a proud member of the United athiest alliance (yeah, very similar to the name of the southpark sceintist extremeist groups of the future, but I assure we were around first)... and I get no greater pleasure than walking in and out of abortion clinics and hastling the bastards who are constantly trying to push their stigmata on me....

the difference between me and them? I've never once told them that god doesn't exist... or that jesus was just some poor bastard with a good plan, or that the bible is a schovenistic 'end of the world' scenario that really only exists to keep the 'sheeple' in line and give them a reason to act upon their morals and not their greed, as well as a simple explaination for things that we were formerly too inept to have explained 'SCIENTIFICLY'... and as our technology grows, and fewer and fewer principles of our existance remain intangible, more and more people are deciding that the bible's lessons just aren't right for them.

we don't need a moral code to dictate our life, or a promise of an afterlife to deter us from our animalistic side anymore.... we have finger printing, DNA, video/audio surveilence and the internet... our promise of punishment is much more immediate... tangible.. we no longer require 'guesses' at why things are the way they are, we can explain them with facts...


but I'm quite a bit off my subject..
religion can be an addiction..... there's no drug in existance that have pushed humans as far as religion does... some of the most detestible acts are committed under the name of 'god', 'alah', 'buddah' etc... more attrocities, wrongful executions and torture were committed by the christian church than any other group in existance... and yet christians are the most 'tolerant' of the religions, 'tho shalt not have any god before me'... I MUST BE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE, or you will rot in hell.. 'thou shalt not steal' unless it's required by the church, or any idiot in a robe can think of one good reason why it's 'heretical'..

again, completely off subject, I'm just very very steadfast in my logic.. not saying you are wrong, just sayin I think I'm more right...

[shatteredparadigm]

Thank you for all of your replies. They meant a lot to me and it feels good not to be alone.


@valseedian - you and I get along well and I am a fellow atheist. I do not want this to devolve into an argument over religion.

Faith has done terrible things but it's also helped a lot of people overcome tremendous struggles. Someday you and I can go into why people have faith in God and the biological/psychological purposes it holds.

I'm sorry if I haven't responded to everyone.... my mind is doing weird things. Please keep the comments and more importantly, the stories coming. This is helping me. I hope someday this thread will help another...

[Bigles]

The whole area of addiction is one that is full of different views and arguments. Many working in medical fields do not believe that psychological addiction is a true addiction for example. Others believe that this is the true essence of addiction. Who knows? I prefer to think of psychological addiction, for myself, as very well entrenched habits. So, for example, I have been smoking dope for nearly thirty years on a daily basis. Not heavy smoking but at the very least a joint before I go to bed as it helps my insomnia. If I am at home and can't have my joint for whatever reasons I get really aggitated. If I am away on business however I have no difficulty - I just don't sleep so well. This tells me that it is not an addiction as such but a situational habit. One I could break if I really wanted to - given that I need the sleep I choose not to, but I do realise what a neat bit of rationalisation that is.

A more serious problem I had many years ago was with speed. I was averaging a gram a day for well over a year. I would be on it for three days in a row, get really drunk sleep for 24 hours, then eat for a day then start again that night. I snorted it everywhere I went. To most people this is pure addiction. I had to come off it suddenly for reasons I cannot talk about but lets just say my life took an unexpected turn. I moved away from the town I had been living in, away from the contacts and friends, although making contact would have been really easy. I had no trouble staying off it. Now I missed it and still do to this day but it was really quite straight forward.

The point of the post I suppose is to say that in my experience binging on stims is not too difficult a habit to break. It requires some willpower for sure, and perhaps some life changes, but if you decide you're going to do it its really not that big a deal. You haven't been doing them too heavily for too long so don't allow your mind to turn it into a mountain that it is not.

The most important thing I think is to try to figure out why you want to binge in the first place. For me when I was doing the speed it was to mask and cover underlying unhappiness with my life and some depression and social anxiety. It has taken me a long time to deal with those issues but now I can use stimulants again without relying on them to lift my mood or give me social confidence. I can do them in moderation just for the high and leave it alone thereafter. I am not implying that this is true for you but there will be underlying reasons why you love it so much. It is giving you something that you need. Figure out what that is and you may find that this experience has been very worthwhile.

edit: On a side note I employ a rule with myself that I never use alcohol or stims if I am in a bad or sad mood. I only use them if I feel OK or am happy. This I think is a useful strategy for avoiding addiction problems.

[valseedian]

bigles.... I know that struggle. I'm not nearly old enough to make most of those claims, but I assure we are kindred spirits in that WHOLE story.


I'd put forth this definition for addiction: when a user will give up a NEED in order to fulfill his want, that is an addiction. anyone who can't pay their rent cause of a weed habit, that's an addiction.. anyone who binges for so long that they can't remember the beginning of the binge when they finally crash, is an addict..

I personally have NO belief that true addiction is real. I beleive there are 4 states of 'addict' as it's classically put forth: current+ accepting, current+rejecting, and past+acc/rej. I beleive that we as humans can 'get used' to a spcific mindset, and if it's a desireable change over the current state, we do desire to be back in that state. the best type of addict is past+accepting, that is that they are no longer bingers or addicts, they can still enjoy their favorite mind altering substance, but are NO LONGER a slave to it.

being current+rejecting is the worst.. cause there's 2 ways you can be this: currently addicted and denying that addiction exists at all (but puts no effort into proving it), or currently addicted and denying that THEY are currently addicted. un-information is the most comon tool of the addict, utilizing missinformation or, a complete lack there of, to justify themselves.


I'm personally current and accepting. I understand that I 'rely' on a substance or state of mind to stabilize.. well... me.... and I I'm OK with that. even tho I'm not very good at it, I try not to ever binge on anything (I suck at avoiding binges because I'm very economical, I never buy just the smallest amount).. I only beleive myself to be 'physically addicted' to cannabinoid receptor agonization, by which I mean, I LOVE pot. the smell, the taste, rolling... packing.. everything about that beautiful green bud...

plus, all of the amphets that were packed down my throat over my entire childhood, as well as the barbs that inevitably followed, have caused me to be almost fully insomniatic. I rely on medication to sleep at all. without meds, I can sometimes score as much as 3 hours sleep in a night, devided among 3 naps(for lack of a better word)



honestly, I'm typing this up at 9:30 am, after 3 days of being completely 100% drug free. (well..... cept for the 150mg diphenhydramine I'd taken for sleep purposes.).. I have a drug test at noon today, and if I pass, I'll never have to test again... possible hangups: amphets 5 days ago insuflated , 6 perk 30's spread out over 3 days ending 3 days ago, and I smoked sum bud with those perks too... but I've already had a chance to pass using this scenario, and I have... so lets not muddle this up today huh?


I'm not the type to argue about religion ever... it's a waste of my keystrokes. everyone has the right to beleive whatever nonsense they want... no skin off my balls...

[Bigles]

Good luck valseedian - hope you pass. I agree with what you say - I like the four stages idea.

I think there is another concept that I have had for many years, and I think you were referring to, which is being addicted to getting high as opposed to any one way of getting high. It is well known (round here anyway) for example that alcoholics when they dry out can develop bad gambling addictions. This idea is a useful in relation to rotating highs so as to avoid dependence on any one substance (something I have done). The bigger issue is of course getting over the desire to be high all the time. This requires coming to terms with your own psyche - something we all like to avoid like the plague.

[catfish]

This is a *huge* subject of enquiry - the old fashioned idea that 'addiction' was a purely chemical process, caused by the WDs forcing the individual to seek relief from the WDs, has been thoroughly discredited.

For a start, plenty of non-chemical stimuli result in behaviour indistinguishable from chemical addiction. Secondly, ex-addicts that have not used any drug for 10 years often display WD behaviours when returned to locations where they used to buy drugs.

It appears to be purely associative psychology and a damn sight more complicated than the lawmakers would admit (even though many of them are probably drug users themselves).

I won't bore you any more... the psychology of addiction cf. dependence (two different things) was one of my papers at university... suffice to say, having learnt how much of a bad call it is, I then proceeded to learn the hard way :( At least I know I'm not talking shite when I rant about it ;)

[SuperGreenWarrior]

just sayin I think I'm more right...



nice one! ;)

interesting how seeing as your so steadfast with your logic you presumed i am somehow not because i said that faith is a beautiful thing, and thats all i said.

[valseedian]

nice one! ;)

interesting how seeing as your so steadfast with your logic you presumed i am somehow not because i said that faith is a beautiful thing, and thats all i said.

out of context, that statement seems kinda arrogant, but when u read it after the entire post, it makes more sence.



after all, doesn't everyone think that they are MORE right than others... isn't that the whole idea of an opinion.. the only thing is opinions don't alter the reality of fact. that's all I'm saying.

[shatteredparadigm]

This is a *huge* subject of enquiry - the old fashioned idea that 'addiction' was a purely chemical process, caused by the WDs forcing the individual to seek relief from the WDs, has been thoroughly discredited.

The following is from Wikipedia on Addiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction):

In medical terminology, an addiction is a state in which the body relies on a substance for normal functioning and develops physical dependence, as in drug addiction. When the drug or substance on which someone is dependent is suddenly removed, it will cause withdrawal, a characteristic set of signs and symptoms. Addiction is generally associated with increased drug tolerance. In physiological terms, addiction is not necessarily associated with substance abuse since this form of addiction can result from using medication as prescribed by a doctor.

However, common usage of the term addiction has spread to include psychological dependence. In this context, the term is used in drug addiction and substance abuse problems, but also refers to behaviors that are not generally recognized by the medical community as problems of addiction, such as compulsive overeating.

The term addiction is also sometimes applied to compulsions that are not substance-related, such as problem gambling and computer addiction. In these kinds of common usages, the term addiction is used to describe a recurring compulsion by an individual to engage in some specific activity, despite harmful consequences to the individual's health, mental state or social life.

This is odd... because by the medical definition it would make heroine the most or one of the most medically addictive drugs out there, simply because of the withdrawal.

Anyway, this is one of the best charts I've ever found regarding Addiction. It doesn't even mention the word, because I think Addiction runs on multiple attributes.


http://www.drugwarfacts.org/comparecht.gif

[Pandy]

Anyway, this is one of the best charts I've ever found regarding Addiction. It doesn't even mention the word, because I think Addiction runs on multiple attributes.

That's a good point SP - addiction does run on multiple attributes. (IMO also)

Psychological, Physiological, Behavioral, Socio-cultural etc etc

Addiction ISN'T just about the chemical dependence, even when you've beaten the chemical dependence the addiction can live on in so many other facets of our lives and makes it so easy to fall back into old patterns.

How many smokers out there? how many times have you quit only to find a cigarette between your fingers when your with your smoker buddies...