Info needed on methedrone/mephedrone/methylone

[10outof10]

Hello everyone,

I am looking for as much info as possible on the above substances and thought some of you clever chemist types might be able to help:) I work for a drug harm reduction charity in Edinburgh, Scotland and am starting to see these substances crop up, however little is known about them and there is an abundance of urban myths crossed with plain stupidity when people start telling you there is no such thing and you mean methadone the opiate substitute. Having worked in a rehab, I know the difference ;) I have done a fair bit of research via the internet and am turning up some conflicting info. The information i am specifically looking for is: the difference between the substances-already have had a good look at wikipedia that gives info on the compounds, really want to know difference in laymans terms such as effects, have heard methedrone is closer to cocaine with mephedrone being more similar to MDMA (although both are similar to each other). It would be great to know short and long term effects, the average dosage and cost (I'm aware you can get it via internet in grams, just don't know if you would use similar amounts as cocaine). Would be good to know what are the perils/tips for mixing with other substances legal and illegal (e.g alcohol/other stimulants), any toxicity reports that exist, any withdrawal/addiction issues and anything that is known about history, I believe Alexander Shulgin had a few dabblings! This is a big list, but really anything anyone knows would be helpful. As i mentioned, I work in drugs field, mostly at welfare services at festivals and in training other agencies so would really help me treat the people I help in a more effective way if i had more knowledge. Any help is greatly appreciated! :) Cheers

[10outof10]

Hello everyone,

I am looking for as much info as possible on the above substances and thought some of you might be able to help. I work for a drug harm reduction charity in Edinburgh, Scotland and am starting to see these substances crop up, however little is known about them and there is an abundance of urban myths crossed with plain stupidity when people start telling you there is no such thing and you mean methadone the opiate substitute. Having worked in a rehab, I know the difference ;) I have done a fair bit of research via the internet and am turning up some conflicting info. The information i am specifically looking for is: the difference between the substances-already have had a good look at wikipedia that gives info on the compounds, really want to know difference in laymans terms such as effects, have heard methedrone is closer to cocaine with mephedrone being more similar to MDMA (although both are similar to each other). It would be great to know short and long term effects, the average dosage and cost (I'm aware you can get it via internet in grams, just don't know if you would use similar amounts as cocaine). Would be good to know what are the perils/tips for mixing with other substances legal and illegal (e.g alcohol/other stimulants), any toxicity reports that exist, any withdrawal/addiction issues and anything that is known about history, I believe Alexander Shulgin had a few dabblings! This is a big list, but really anything anyone knows would be helpful. As i mentioned, I work in drugs field, mostly at welfare services at festivals and in training other agencies so would really help me treat the people I help in a more effective way if i had more knowledge. Any help is greatly appreciated! Cheers :)

[insomnia]

Have u tried erowid, bluelight or drugsforum?
More info there than we can possibly reply to in 1 post.

In short, 1g of Meph is 5 decent doses for the intolerant , personally i bomb them at 400-500mg which is an irresponsible amount but chasing the high is what guides me, those who snort go through 100mg lines much more frequently.
There's plenty of threads here on dosage etc look around.

Good to see your taking an active role in researching these, i saw a GP recently for GBL addiction and he didn't have a clue, but the drugs counsellor i saw was great but she didn't have a clue what mephedrone is, respect for finding out (just don't tell the gov ;))

[insomnia]

Didn't need to make 2 threads did you?

[10outof10]

gimme a break, new to the forum!

[10outof10]

Have tried all those yes, that's where the conflicting info is coming from. Didn't expect all the answers but different people know different things..have found that many peeps are quite happy to tell you as much as they know even via PM. Unfortunately I doubt the gov doesn't know but when has banning anything made things better, GBL is a great example. Deal with a lot of GBL users myself so here what you're saying and my organisation have been doing a lot of work with G users-nasty, nasty detox eh? If more organisations came in with harm reduction instead of pro abstinence, services might be better. Will keep on my info hunt :)

[insomnia]

I'm more than happy to describe my experiences via PM's have u got a Web address for your harm reduction?

[Spaced out]

gimme a break, new to the forum!
we all know your just trying to help ban it

[Pandy]

I think you'll need to be far more transparent before you find the cooperation you are seeking.

What is the Charity Organisation that you represent?
What urban myths have you heard?
What exactly has your organisation been seeing in relation to this substance?

[10outof10]

Oh my god! Chill people!! Can see some are a bit touchy cos Spice, G and BZP was classified today and no I don't want to help ban anything as it has never helped anything just makes users move on to more caustic substances such as GBL. My organisation are called Crew, we are a fairly unique drug service in being that we neither condemn nor condone drug use, we only aim to reduce harm in drug use i.e make drug using practices safer. More info can be found via our website www.crew2000.org.uk and myspace www.myspace.com/crewmindaltering

We work predominately with psycho-stimulant users so having a pro abstinence approach to helping people is never going to get you v.far as we all know the vast majority of people that use these kinds of drugs, do so safely and with much enjoyment. Being an ex-partier myself I have fairly good awareness of many substances but not meth. Was finding there was a fair number of folk on meth or legal highs containing it at the last event I covered, people there were just reporting getting very strong speedy type rushes that were a bit too full on for them, experiencing bad anxiety, and being really cold. It's hard to tell as when people get to our services they are fairly mashed and have taken everything and anything so who knows what is causing any ill effects by that point. Many were having a good time but simply found that the effects were a bit stronger than they had anticipated, thus why i thought having an idea of a novice dosage would be a good harm reduction tip. Have heard very mixed reports about comedowns etc..some say none some say terrible. Have also read about the wierd blue blotches appearing and didn't know if this was just a tall story or a common occurence. Anyway this is a genuine inquiry aimed to help and not piss people off and whilst I understand people being wary, I think it would be cool if we encouraged drug workers taking an interest as most I know are pretty non-judgemental and only want to help the people they support. To reassure you guys I am a DJ in my spare time so i wouldn't get any people dancing in my club if drugs didn't exist! Apologies if this thread has caused any offence !

[Mona Lisa]

Oh my god! Chill people!! Can see some are a bit touchy cos Spice, G and BZP was classified today and no I don't want to help ban anything as it has never helped anything just makes users move on to more caustic substances such as GBL. My organisation are called Crew, we are a fairly unique drug service in being that we neither condemn nor condone drug use, we only aim to reduce harm in drug use i.e make drug using practices safer. More info can be found via our website www.crew2000.org.uk and myspace www.myspace.com/crewmindaltering

We work predominately with psycho-stimulant users so having a pro abstinence approach to helping people is never going to get you v.far as we all know the vast majority of people that use these kinds of drugs, do so safely and with much enjoyment. Being an ex-partier myself I have fairly good awareness of many substances but not meth. Was finding there was a fair number of folk on meth or legal highs containing it at the last event I covered, people there were just reporting getting very strong speedy type rushes that were a bit too full on for them, experiencing bad anxiety, and being really cold. It's hard to tell as when people get to our services they are fairly mashed and have taken everything and anything so who knows what is causing any ill effects by that point. Many were having a good time but simply found that the effects were a bit stronger than they had anticipated, thus why i thought having an idea of a novice dosage would be a good harm reduction tip. Have heard very mixed reports about comedowns etc..some say none some say terrible. Have also read about the wierd blue blotches appearing and didn't know if this was just a tall story or a common occurence. Anyway this is a genuine inquiry aimed to help and not piss people off and whilst I understand people being wary, I think it would be cool if we encouraged drug workers taking an interest as most I know are pretty non-judgemental and only want to help the people they support. To reassure you guys I am a DJ in my spare time so i wouldn't get any people dancing in my club if drugs didn't exist! Apologies if this thread has caused any offence !

No worries, just thought you were maybe looking for a fuckbuddy :cool::D;)

[Pandy]

...Being an ex-partier myself I have fairly good awareness of many substances but not meth. Was finding there was a fair number of folk on meth or legal highs containing it at the last event I covered, people there were just reporting getting very strong speedy type rushes that were a bit too full on for them, experiencing bad anxiety, and being really cold...

"Meth" as in Methamphetamine? I'm guessing you are meaning Meph; 4mmc; Mephedrone.

[Spaced out]

"Meth" as in Methamphetamine? I'm guessing you are meaning Meph; 4mmc; Mephedrone.
Cat got his tongue

[10outof10]

No meth as in methedrone and also meph as in mephedrone. And it's her tongue actually :D

[Spaced out]

No meth as in methedrone and also meph as in mephedrone. And it's her tongue actually :D
Am sorry miss.
But Meth is not mephedrone

[10outof10]

methedrone, and I know there is also mephedrone- 2 different substances I believe although similar effects

[10outof10]

Methedrone (BK-PMMA, Methoxyphedrine)

Mephedrone (4-MethylMethCathinone)

Have some info on chemical compound was looking more for actual difference in effects or if both are similar

:)

[xxdd]

I doubt there's much methedrone on the streets at the moment, it's more likely people getting confused about what they're taking.

[10outof10]

I agree as people on the forums are getting mixed up and it is pretty confusing as they have v.similar names, would def say there is more mephedrone but there is some methedrone and I have seen it for sale from same places. Think it is about, though in small pockets. Thanx

[SecretAgent79]

:cool:
I agree as people on the forums are getting mixed up and it is pretty confusing as they have v.similar names, would def say there is more mephedrone but there is some methedrone and I have seen it for sale from same places. Think it is about, though in small pockets. Thanx

ay, say again i dont understand?!:confused::D:):(:rolleyes::eek:

[10outof10]

?????????????????????????? :)

[Pandy]

lol wtf ok this thread is needing some serious help lol :eek:

Obviously the naming of these substances can create some confusion when being repeated from one person to another. [anyone here played 'chinese whispers']

We know that with so many similarly sounding substances are around that there is gonna be some confusion. imo this mostly comes about because people don't pay close enough attention to what it is they are consuming and mistakenly abbreviate the common name or confuse names between completely different substances.

as it happens the word "Meth" appears as the most commonly misused, mistakenly linked to Methylone, Methedrone and Mephedrone.

imo it is important to create as much clarity between the substances mentioned above and the scheduled substance Methamphetamine aka Meth, Ice, P, Crystal-Meth.

If we are gonna talk about Methedrone lets call it Methedrone, because we don't wanna be adding to the confusion by referring to it as Meth when it is not.

On LHF there is no real information on the substance Methedrone. One thread had been started sometime ago and the discussion was concerned about the possible toxicity of bk-pmma. No one had reported using the substance and Wiki was the only source info.

[Neo]

Yes, this site is here for harm minimization, we can not allow confusion like this as it may lead to mis-informed users harming themselves.

Best bet if your confused about any of these chems is avoid them all together. They are for research only.

[Mona Lisa]

No worries, thought she was askin' about pussy :D;):p:cool:

[ashxcore]

Ah, Mona, you crack me up.

[10outof10]

Yes confusion = not good. Know if we're being pedantic..Unfortunatley many people abbreviate substances and have heard many people doing so with these substances on other forums and the post was titled with the correct names. Crystal meth we know most commonly gets abbreviated to meth, but so do plenty other substances. For example in rehab the clients referred to their morning methadone dose as meth, I guess it just depends what circles you move in and what area you are from what are the street names for substances, so maybe full names are always a good idea. There is more info that you think on methedrone available via the web but maybe not in this forum. Was interested in all 3 substances anyway so it's all good.

[holdout]

methedrone (bk-PMMA) is still something that hasn't entered mass-synth/distribution for recreational consumption. a lot of the concern is lack of research and its similarity to PMMA which is similar to PMA (known to have bad side-effects). in fact some not-so-old published info about PMMA is proving it to be more lethal than first thought, so i dont think anyone will be seeing methedrone around for a long while.... (if governments ban safer alternatives then yes, people will have no choice but to either commit a crime by possessing a newly-declared illicit substance, or by resorting to other non-scheduled substances like methedrone at the risk of their health).

i always did and still do say it's the government that kills people-- not drugs. for example, if MDMA hadn't been banned/scheduled because of Ricaurte's mix-up with MDA at John Hoskins univ., people would not be buying it underground from some sketchy street vendor, that in fact sells you a pill with only 20mg of MDMA and the rest being PMA or horse tranquilizers and stuff, causing you to die of hyperthermia or the like. So thank you dr. ricaurte. i dont know if you can sleep at night, but i do wonder how much the government paid you to ruin your reputation and say "ooooops! my ENTIRE research was not on MDMA after all!". population control? too many hormone-driven teenagers around? let's ban their favourite substance to make them buy toxic shit off the street and kill them off? ---- i'll leave all that to the conspiracists..... hehe but anyway it's no wonder that across the globe over to Britain there is consideration of reducing MDMA to class B. humanity's problem is we act fast when penetrated with fear, but we act slowly when change is due.

as for mephedrone i will tell you that it is deifnitely not physiologically addictive like cocaine is, however, some people have certain addiction genes that respond to mephedrone on an emotional level and this causes them to finish off their entire "stash" of let's say 2 grams throughout a day or two. they cant hold back and say that enough is enough. it's like finishing off 2 pints of ice cream when you really only wanted half a cup. in my experience i would say that about 40% of people describe mephedrone as being "morish" making them WANT more and more (they dont NEED more they WANT more). therefore in my opinion about 20% actually can't stop themselves from taking more while the other 80% have the discipline to stop.

methylone is pretty much almost out of "research chemical" status and is known to be much safer than MDMA itself. it too is not physiologically addictive.

i wouldnt endorse any of these as a detox substitute but would use them on an interim basis towards complete withdrawal. on the other hand, there's always ibogaine :P

[10outof10]

Thanks for the post, you made some good and v.true points! I see far more people at events, not feeling to clever because of a shitty BZP pill masquerading as MDMA. That's what I've been hearing about mephedrone, that it's moreish as opposed to being particularly addictive. Let's be honest what isn't moreish that is good/fun, like the icecream analogy :D That's why I thought it best to try and find out a bit more about it and try and dispell some of the urban myths...have spoken with a few people who have been using bubbles but v.inconsistent info been coming out, some like to talk it up a bit and others tolerance may have slipped a little so have found it pretty full on. Just wondered what was the deal..thanks :)

[holdout]

Thanks for the post, you made some good and v.true points! I see far more people at events, not feeling to clever because of a shitty BZP pill masquerading as MDMA. That's what I've been hearing about mephedrone, that it's moreish as opposed to being particularly addictive. Let's be honest what isn't moreish that is good/fun, like the icecream analogy :D That's why I thought it best to try and find out a bit more about it and try and dispell some of the urban myths...have spoken with a few people who have been using bubbles but v.inconsistent info been coming out, some like to talk it up a bit and others tolerance may have slipped a little so have found it pretty full on. Just wondered what was the deal..thanks :)

hehe BZP has always been horrible for me.... i honestly believed that "drug harm minimization/reduction" was a programme to sell people drugs that induce unpleasant rolls to make them think "this is what drugs are. so stay away from them" hahhha. it would seriously work on the little ones, like age 13 or 14. if that's the first drug they try and they don't like it, they'll be scared away from tryng anything else.... :P

[shizerbeard]

mephs weird, but it defintley has some slight addictive qualities

aside from the more ish ness after you have taken a dose which is quite apparent, after some heavy use i did feel empty and bored for long periods of time (days/weeks). Then the thought of a meph session pops into your head and next thing you know your 12 hours into a session!

if you dont have local access to it through a local dealer in your area or dont have large quantities kicking about your house you should be fine though

meph loses this additctive property if its not available as easily. Its just when you think after a long day at work "ohhhhh i could go for a gram tonight!" and are able to go pick up straight away that problems can arise easily in my experience.

[GOA]

You have some good points, holdout. Thanks for ranting!

[holdout]

Its just when you think after a long day at work "ohhhhh i could go for a gram tonight!"lol :D very true! i wouldn't blame it on meph though. i get that way really just looking forward to doing any stimulants. it's because they're all anxiolytic and in moments of stress your mind recalls the "escape" to being utterly stress-free attributed to the stimulants. so again that touches on the natural emotional addiction any human has like my ice cream analogy.

i do indeed sorta covet stimulants after a long day's work and even though i have a lot in my stash i dont always end up doing them that night once the stressor is gone hehe


You have some good points, holdout. Thanks for ranting!n/p :D *rantz some morrrrrreeeee!!!* I WANT CINNAMON! GIVE ME CINNAMON! CINNAMOOOOONNNNNONONONON!

[Bali Muncher Jim]

[/QUOTE]as for mephedrone i will tell you that it is deifnitely not physiologically addictive like cocaine is, however, some people have certain addiction genes that respond to mephedrone on an emotional level and this causes them to finish off their entire "stash" of let's say 2 grams throughout a day or two. they cant hold back and say that enough is enough. it's like finishing off 2 pints of ice cream when you really only wanted half a cup. in my experience i would say that about 40% of people describe mephedrone as being "morish" making them WANT more and more (they dont NEED more they WANT more). therefore in my opinion about 20% actually can't stop themselves from taking more while the other 80% have the discipline to stop.[/QUOTE]

Spot on there! I cannot buy in bulk anymore I used to be able to buy 5g's and make it last 14days, now forget it, 5g's will be a session. I find it better to get 1 or 2g's in at a time.

[holdout]

Spot on there! I cannot buy in bulk anymore I used to be able to buy 5g's and make it last 14days, now forget it, 5g's will be a session. I find it better to get 1 or 2g's in at a time.lol *takes a bow* thanks for fkkin up the quote though! :mad: hahahhaha j/k :D

[GOA]

I absolutely agree, meph isn't physiologically addicting, at least not for me--got a couple grams months ago and I still have a little bit left! Maybe it's just my pessimism though... I know the stuff isn't good for you.

[scudinvi]

lol :D very true! i wouldn't blame it on meph though. i get that way really just looking forward to doing any stimulants. it's because they're all anxiolytic and in moments of stress your mind recalls the "escape" to being utterly stress-free attributed to the stimulants. so again that touches on the natural emotional addiction any human has like my ice cream analogy.

i do indeed sorta covet stimulants after a long day's work and even though i have a lot in my stash i dont always end up doing them that night once the stressor is gone hehe

n/p :D *rantz some morrrrrreeeee!!!* I WANT CINNAMON! GIVE ME CINNAMON! CINNAMOOOOONNNNNONONONON!

A very observant fellow IMO...;)

[holdout]

A very observant fellow IMO...;)
hehe i've been keen/astute my entire life!!!!!!! when my eyes dart towards your direction, you're being scrutinized in mah mind! and in a few seconds i figure out 30% of your personality without having to interact with you.

dum dum duuuuummmmmmm now THAT's empathy :cool: (nah... that's DNA.... err... kbye hehehe)

[scudinvi]

hehe i've been keen/astute my entire life!!!!!!! when my eyes dart towards your direction, you're being scrutinized in mah mind! and in a few seconds i figure out 30% of your personality without having to interact with you.

dum dum duuuuummmmmmm now THAT's empathy :cool: (nah... that's DNA.... err... kbye hehehe)

I know what you mean, so can I...:p

[holdout]

Haha yeah sorry about that I spacked it up a bit, oopps I cant say that anymore, just to add to this thread I've got a fluffy pussy called meiow.
pfff why not a crystal trinket pussy called meiow? hehe... it's more "hard"core :P IIIIIIIII am the LOOOOORRRDDD of PUNS!