Problems With Sleep

[THCDunc]

For months now I've had real problems with getting to sleep without having several drinks or a good smoke.

I just can't seem to switch my brain off, and I do plenty to burn off my energy as well, I spend at least an hour a day working out, I run 1.5 miles a day and do 4-5hours working but still I can never get to sleep before 3-4AM even if I wake up at 8AM. My body feels exhausted but my brain just keeps on going, it's a curse.

Anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking about getting a script for some downers but i'm worried about addiction potential because i've not got the most will power in the world.

[yopreacher]

Most pills are just a temporary solution. You need to learn how to relax (I know it sounds impossible when you are in your position)

I sleep very bad myself and I have tried everything...

If you gonna start using sleeping pills use some antihistamine cos they are not addictive (of course they are not as effective)

[madasslass]

There are several natural supplements that should provide immediate relief for insomnia, you could try them before you resort to the prescription.

Valarian is very effective. Try taking 250-500mg extract about 45 minutes before you go to bed. Start at the lower dose and work up to what works for you. Some people find that valarian works better when it's combined with chamomile, so maybe try a cup of camomile (or passionflower) tea with your valarian.

You are doing the right thing with the regular exercise. It may be a nutritional deficiency that is causing your sleep problems. A lack of certain nutrients, particularly calcium, magnesium or vitamin B6, can sometimes be the culprit, and you might find that replenishing them will help you sleep better again.

Other supplements that help to ease anxiety can also be very helpful. There are lots of options and things to try. It's just a case of trying one thing at a time. Start with the valarian, that seems to be the one that helps most people generally.

Hope that helps, I know how frustrating it must be. Good luck :)

[Pandy]

Could try taking Melatonin at night to help regain more normal sleeping patterns as well as taking a vitamin and mineral supplement in the morning. From experience this worked well when I was in a similar situation.

Though if you are experiencing psychological disturbances as well, might pay to have a look at managing them better... stress, anxiety etc

Melatonin is non-addictive and naturally present in our bodies, night-time usually prompts the body to pump a little out and helps us get to sleep.

It can be ordered online, though there are a few countries where it is a prescription medicine and you may need to visit your doctor.
Again in my experience doctors want to push actual sleeping pills, state that you want to try Melatonin.

[dave777]

I agree with theobroma, just drinking a cupful now.
Melatonin too.
*boshes a melatonin while she remembers*

Another thing I have just learnt of another forum, was that someone said to stay in the same position in bed, and lie like that, and in an hour you will be asleep. I seem to remember rock stars sleeping on wooden floors using the technique.
I tried it in bed and it did work.

I also use downers, but am off them right now as I need a break.

[Kryton]

I have to say I have serious sleep problems, have had them for many many years. I have tried all sorts of herbal non prescription remedies for sleep and none have worked well for me. That include the usual ones people mentioned Melatonin, 5-HTP, Valerian, etc.

I used to smoke weed up from the age of 16 until the age of 19 or 20 and it used to be perfect for me for sleep. I had to stop as at one point in my life after doing it for a few years as it just started making me paranoid about everything. Since then I have always had sleeping problems (now aged 31).

Alcohol was my next poison. Started doing it daily in the evening to be merry enough to fall asleep but that was the start of an addiction problem in the end. I also started working for a company where EVERYONE socialised down the pub almost every evening and lunchtime, it was a great place to work but killed my alcohol tollerance. At one point I ended up drinking a litre of whiskey a night before I decided its time to cut back a lot and sort my life out. I did this with the help of Diazepam, although it took many months to cut down from 1 litre of whiskey to 3 double shots in the evening only. I am now still on 20mg of Diazepam a day which has sort of replaced my alcohol addiction (I can go without if I need to but still like a few small glasses of Scotch in the evening if I am relaxing watching TV). I much prefer to be addicted to benzo's though as I dont have to go to the pub every lunchtime at work and have a couple of pints, then stink for the rest of the work day.

When Spice first came out I tried it and it was great for sleep. Worked just like weed used to when I smoked it but without any paranoia. Either I built up a huge tollerance to it or they started making it weaker around the time Gold came out. Then Gold seemed weaker when Platinum came out. I always had to have the strongest blend to sleep and the weaker ones were no good for me.

Benzo's and Z-Drugs worked for me (well should say Z-drugs 1/2 life is too short and I wake after 2 or so hours and dont get back to sleep) but after about 2 weeks of taking them daily, they stop working as a sleeping agent. A lot of people say how benzo's just make them feel tired and dont like them. Well thats a beginners effect. After doing them for a few week the sedative effects completely go unless you take very large amounts of it. I never recommend taking large amounts of benzo's though as it will kill your tollerance and make it that much harder to come off if you ever want to.

The only thing that actually works for me and sleep in GBL. No matter what my tollerance is for it and how long I have been using it for sleep it still works. I usually now take 3ml of it and smoke a joint of a strong Spice/JW-018 blend and I am usually off to sleep fast for around 4-6 hours (5+ hours is enough for me to function all day and I am used to it now). Without the JW-018 its probably 3.5ml of GBL I need, but wake up after 3-4 hours then take another 2-3 ml depending on how much more sleep I need. If its the weekend I would take another 3.5ml and sleep to get a good 8 hour sleep at least.

Oh, and Kratom used to work well for sleep but doesnt anymore. Also poppy pod tea works very well but I dont take that often as I dont want to become addicted to morphine/opium. Also its such a hassle making the tea. Soma is also good to mix with other sedatives to help you sleep.

[Pseudo]

I found exercising my mental body to be the best way to get over my sleeping dificulties. I would read a book that took a lot of concentration for example. I like brain training on the ds now :p

I also found a deliberate pre bed routine good eg a nice warm bath followed by warm drink. I discovered too that eating crap would keep me wide awake-sugar buzz was awful! Oh and eating a meal late wasn't good either for me.

:)

[dayZd?]

Seriously, if you don't wanna take substances to try and sleep give Horlicks a try.

It's saved me many times from insomnia:
http://www.caribbeangrocerystore.com/catalog/Horlicks.jpg

[Dr.Juice]

Maybe go see a doctor? I'd say the usual 5-htp melatonin valerian. Benadryl works great.

[ShaggyMaengDa]

Seriously, if you don't wanna take substances to try and sleep give Horlicks a try.

It's saved me many times from insomnia:
http://www.caribbeangrocerystore.com/catalog/Horlicks.jpg


Agreed. You can use medications but you can't beat good old Horlicks IMO. And it's good for you.

[P-Dub]

I use a couple different techniques depending on how I feel. If I know I am not going to be able to fall asleep on my own I will take some melatonin, usually only around 1 mg because if I take too much my dreams become very vivid and I end up oversleeping. If I feel like I am worn out enough to fall asleep on my own I'll read a book until i sleep. If neither of these works and I am in bed wide awake I will try to physically relax myself. A therapist taught me this technique. Lay in one position, start by squeezing the muscles in your feet and toes-not to the point that its cramping but a good, long squeeze. Take a deep breath in and relax your toes while you breathe out, concentrate on how good it feels to have your toes relaxed compared to all those muscles flexed, take as long as you need and then move up to your calves and repeat with that group of muscles. Continue to move all the way up your body, including your face, and at the end flex all your muscles together and then release. I usually fall asleep by the time I'm at my arms. If you stick with it all the way through your body will definitely be better prepared to rest.

[shatteredparadigm]

Pure GABA powder seems to work a little. Plus you get the added benefit of boosting your HGH levels.

[Dismember84]

I have the same kind of problem. Ganja has kept me able to sleep for about 4 years now. If I can't have a smoke or have to go to bed sober I just sit and think. I can be dead tired but it doesn't matter. I have heard good things about horlicks so try that and see if it helps.

[Bigles]

I have problems sleeping also (anxiety related). An indica weed works for getting off but I often used to wake a few hours later (with terrible muchies lol). What shaggy said about amytryptaline is true. I take 25mgs every night and sleep well now but dream like crazy (something I don't normally do). Also what P-Dub said about the relaxation technique is excellent. It works incredibly well especially with some hypnotic style music. I used to do this several times a day when my anxiety was at its peak a few years ago.

[Pandy]

This may sound a bit naf, I can't help but notice how people deal with their anxiety/depression related sleeplessness with drug use...
I'm all in favor of doing what ever it takes to claim back some sleep... after all without enough sleep we go mad. Certainly take whatever to regain 'normal' sleep patterns, but once your there why not investigate the anxiety/depression or whatever it was that was causing the insomnia/sleeplessness with the goal of being free from both the insomnia and the dependence on some substance to achieve sleep.

I'm coming from the belief that ideally sleep needs to be both natural/unaided and regular/consistent, that sleep is an integral part of life - aided/induced sleep is not natural sleep - the important processes that occur in natural sleep are not always present in aided/induced sleep and while the body may be rested, the mind is not.

[tony williams]

* Try dimming the lights about 1/2 hours before bed, so it's darker.

* Avoid drugs in general before bed.

* Keep going to bed and getting up at the same time, your body will get used to it.

* Try a nighttime drink with chamomile.

* Sleeping pills aren't usually designed for the long run, they can cause rebound insomnia and dependance.

* If your gunna smack the cat, then do it about 2 hours before bed. (works for me)

[shatteredparadigm]

Totally agree here in many respects.

These are often sleep disorders tied in with anxiety disorders. So it's not just a case of snapping out of it and going to sleep. It's not about tiredness. It's about the malfunctioning of the sleep cente in your brain, often caused by chemical deficiencies in the brain. I found amitrip useful in the shorter-term, as a way of breaking the cycle of tiredness/insomnia. But I don't see them as along-term solution for me.

Ditto

Though I'd venture to even go one step further. I'm willing to bet a lot of people on this thread complaining about sleep have clinical depression/anxiety. There's a huge co-morbidity between these and insomnia as well as self-medication (i.e. drug use). Pulling out of a tangled knot like that is much more difficult than simply "looking at the underlieing root of anxiety".

But the thought is good. I decided to go to bed last night without any supplements... Took longer and I feel like a nap right now, but I think I need to take a break.

[nyguy]

I am surprised no one mentioned Ambien - works well, millions of doses prescribed, produces some dependence, but nothing you can't break in a week using other sleep aids like melatonin when you need a break. I also like NyQuil which does a fantastic job of knocking me out, though not good for long term use. Problem is most of the non-prescription stuff wears off after about four hours. Ambien works well for me all night.

The only one I would pass on is Lunesta, which is made of bugs (I'm not kidding - ISTR it's actually moth's) and you wake up the following morning with the most disgusting taste in your mouth you have ever experienced and you can't wash it away!

I used to work for a pharmaceutical manufacturer and got hold of their master ingredient list. If you knew what half of common drugs were made of you wouldn't go within ten miles of them. Most are animal or plant parts even now a lot of people assume they are just made from "chemicals" like asprin :-)

Cheers, NyGuy

[Pandy]

For those interested - there is sustained release Melatonin... the normal Melatonin can wear off after a number of hours as nyguy posts.
So sustained release Melatonin sorts that problem out nicely.

[Pandy]

Totally agree here in many respects.

Drinking something like Horlicks, without any drug-aid, has got to be the best way.

However, once people have sleep disorders it's difficult to break out of them. Stuff like amitriptyline can serve an important function for people stuck in this situation.

These are often sleep disorders tied in with anxiety disorders. So it's not just a case of snapping out of it and going to sleep. It's not about tiredness. It's about the malfunctioning of the sleep cente in your brain, often caused by chemical deficiencies in the brain. I found amitrip useful in the shorter-term, as a way of breaking the cycle of tiredness/insomnia. But I don't see them as along-term solution for me.

Hey ShaggyMaengDa I agree with you there when you say it's just not a case of snapping out of it, though I do differentiate between those who have underlying chemical deficiencies and those who are experiencing sleeplessness due to an anxiety/depression disorder. It was the latter that I was questioning earlier about taking the opportunity to resolve or at least understand the nature/origin of the anxiety/depression. I make a similar distinction between clinical depression and cognitive depression.

[P-Dub]

Most are animal or plant parts even now a lot of people assume they are just made from "chemicals" like asprin :-)

Aspirin was discovered because it naturally occurs in willow trees. The plant and animal medicine stuff doesn't really bother me. As a environmental studies student I think one of the best arguments for conservation is that our best medicines are derived directly from plants or animals and that every species that goes extinct could have had the cure for cancer, AIDS, etc.


Also, turn the computer off for at least an hour before you go to bed. Staring at your monitor is definitely not conducive to initiating your sleep cycle.

[Pandy]

Also, turn the computer off for at least an hour before you go to bed. Staring at your monitor is definitely not conducive to initiating your sleep cycle.

That's some good advice. Also best not to exercise/gym before trying to sleep either. Best to do exercise/gym in the morning as it allows those fantastic body chems to dissipate over the day... something like that

[shatteredparadigm]

You make some very important points of distinction there.:) Where the two tend to come together is in conditions like CFS and PVFS, where chemical deficiencies and anxiety disorders co-exist, the anxiety/depression developing often directly as a result of sleeping disorders which have possible origins in chemical deficiencies, and sometimes vice-versa. I suspect that's why such chronic fatigue conditions are difficult to treat and cure once they take hold.

Wow dude, you forced me to look up those acronyms. Thanks :)

The more we learn the more we realize we don't know. There's a brand new study out that alcohol can actually cause clinical depression. For years and years we've believed it to be the other way around. Clinically depressed people self-medicate with alcohol.

[shizerbeard]

I often have problems with sleeping. I take stims most weeks (maybe just a session every 1-2 weeks atm) and am used to smoking certain class b things every day.

Even if i smoke myself to death it still takes me a while to drift off, usually im in bed a good hour or so before i start sleeping. And when i have to get up, i cant wake myself up for hours and hours, even if i do get up when i should i just feel half asleep for ages. Doesnt matter if i get 4, 7 or even 12 hours sleep i just cant get up.

if you get annoyed because you cant sleep it makes it a lot worse.

even 200mg diphenhydramine sometimes doesnt quite do it.

Ive not been smoking as much recently, and havent been on the stims so much and im finding it easier to sleep. Im going to try and cut down to maybe only smoking 4-5 days a week instead of 7, and keep to my slightly lower stim intake and hopefully ill keep sleeping well.

[weaselknot]

yeah, stims are bad for the sleep cycle.. I abused methamphetamine for about nine years, almost daily use for the last 3 of those years.. I've stayed away from stims for about six years now and still have marked abnormalities in EEG readings... I've been doing sessions of neurofeedback for the past year and I've gone from about 2 hours a night to 4-5 hours of sleep a night. When I first started the neurofeedback there was hardly any alpha waves generated anywhere by my brain. Even when I was asleep, I produced high levels of beta waves (signifying vigilance or anxiety). now things are leveling out inside the old skull, it seems.. Not sure if it is the neurofeedback or just enough time has passed since the stim abuse. Sucks when you can't sleep though, causes all sorts of problems. Hard to pin down the cause of things.. Can I not sleep because I'm anxious? Or am I anxious because I can't sleep? Really, in my case, stim abuse may not have even been the cause, even though that would be the obvious factor. Anyway, neurofeedback seemed to work for me. Anybody that's tried the medication route, and failed, should look into it.

[xekko]

MELATONIN

I've been using this for the past 6 months and popping one 3mg pill 1 hour before bed gets me instant sleep and really deep sleep. It also seems to make me dream MUCH MUCH more.. but that could be because my tablets also contain vitamin B-6.

Before I started taking melatonin it would take me about 1-2 hours to fall asleep.

The stuff is dirt cheap too, i got 420 tabs for 15 quid from www.ebay.com (NOT .co.uk as melatonin is a POM over here).

Good luck :)

[The_One_and_Only_E]

MELATONIN

I've been using this for the past 6 months and popping one 3mg pill 1 hour before bed gets me instant sleep and really deep sleep. It also seems to make me dream MUCH MUCH more.. but that could be because my tablets also contain vitamin B-6.

Before I started taking melatonin it would take me about 1-2 hours to fall asleep.

The stuff is dirt cheap too, i got 420 tabs for 15 quid from www.ebay.com (NOT .co.uk as melatonin is a POM over here).

Good luck :)

Melatonin really doesn't work for me, meditation and exercise early in the day is the only way to really get sleep.

[thirdeyelasik]

Melatonin really doesn't work for me, meditation and exercise early in the day is the only way to really get sleep.


It doesn't work for me either...matter of fact I can't sleep tonight and tried taking this drink that has melatonin in it and I just had to get back up out of bed. Might take some DPH for a quick solution as I have tons of family crap I have to go to do in about 10 hours.

[The_One_and_Only_E]

Don't overdo the DPH, tolerance builds up in approx. 3 days of constant use if I recall correctly.

[jenefa]

I am working 12 hours without rest & smoke..At the end of the day I feel very sleepy but cant sleep..I feel very stressed and cant sleep..:(

[PlantShaman]

I recommend a melatonin, Valerian root extract, l-theanine, 5-htp cocktail... aka. Slowtivate Relaxation Drink.

Or if you don't like using melatonin, Hippy Chips Relaxation Chocolate Chip Cookies taste wonderful and are made with Valerian root and 5-htp.

Sorry for the shameless product plugs Neo... I didn't link. :p

[The_One_and_Only_E]

You could try blue lotus extract, some call it a stimulant I find it relaxing.

[The_One_and_Only_E]

I've been using haze a bunch to help me sleep.