Here's a weird conspiracy

[Pandy]

Had put this up on TripMe and wondered how it'd go down here.

Here's a weird conspiracy...

Was daydreaming the other day as you do... thinking about Global warming concerns, had just read an article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7888994.stm) that suggested that anything that we do to ratify Kyoto would be ultimately pointless... and thinking about the global recession and the impact that 1) we here in NZ have yet to fully appreciate and 2) the impact such a recession is having globally on production and emission of greenhouse gases.

If we were to take the solid perspective that Global Warming is reality, and that if we choose to not act now - we are all doomed. Consider also that generally the response to this potential catastrophic world event is poor, since Kyoto, which only some countries signed upto, emissions have continued to increase... obviously nobody really wants to stop production, to stop making huge profits or to spend money to change production methods to more costly but environmentally friendly ones.

How does one change peoples perspective so effectively? How does one cause industry to slow and therefore see a real reduction in emissions? Without direct Government intervention and that has affect on the whole world, even the countries who wouldn't address Kyoto. If we can remember that most of the finance that is building coal burning power stations and heavy pollutant industries in developing countries comes from developed countries profiteering.

After almost 2 decades of decadence and waste in the west, we are used to our high wages (comparatively to that of developing and 3rd world nations), travelling freely across the globe, owning property, enjoying access to the best foods, clean running water, the ease at which credit can be consumed, the proliferation of all manner of electronic devices with a half-life of 3-6months... convincing the west to stop consuming is not an easy task.

Unless that is, that it is not negotiable, that it is unavoidable, and therefore 100% effective.

Could it be that the Credit crisis is a fabricated event? There were people who knew that that if the subprime industry was let loose as it had been, there would be a clear, predictable and inevitable outcome. The warning bells were but apparently silenced. Some may enjoy looking into the stockmarket crash of the 20's preceding the Great Depression and may find some interesting parallels. Particularly the behavior of some of the largest banks and the banking families behind them.

Credit got out of control, the larger lending banks called their debt/loans in, the smaller banks defaulted and were subsequently brought out by the larger banks, a huge banking consolidation occurred. Check out the history of JP Morgan and the Rockefellers and their respective banks.
The result then was as it is now, although now the same trick has been played out on a global scale, banks around the world are collapsing and becoming victims of their lenders or nationalized in some cases, credit is shrinking, this contraction then impacts on us and the larger industries slow as credit dries up as does the consumer dollar.
production shrinks and people lose their jobs... then there is the call to return to the local market, globalism survives but the people are too poor to indulge as they once did with reckless abandon. survival becomes the focus, not whether or not we should get the 32" or 42" plasma screen, car sales dive and public transport is flooded, expensive imported items become available to fewer as transportation cost soar.

The best way to reduce carbon emissions is to halt or to restrict all industries that pollute (industries that do not pollute are acceptable collateral in the larger picture) would be to initiate a global recession. While at the same time working on policies that would be useful in a decades time when nations are back on their feet and their backbone industries would be developing within the new emissions guidelines.

A possible but fanciful conspiracy daydream is it not? an end to Globalisation as we have known it and the return to the local market?

[General Anesthetic]

There's good evidence to suggest that global warming is mostly caused by sun spots...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3869753.stm

[Kernelp4nic]

Had put this up on TripMe and wondered how it'd go down here.

Here's a weird conspiracy...

Was daydreaming the other day as you do... thinking about Global warming concerns, had just read an article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7888994.stm) that suggested that anything that we do to ratify Kyoto would be ultimately pointless... and thinking about the global recession and the impact that 1) we here in NZ have yet to fully appreciate and 2) the impact such a recession is having globally on production and emission of greenhouse gases.

If we were to take the solid perspective that Global Warming is reality, and that if we choose to not act now - we are all doomed. Consider also that generally the response to this potential catastrophic world event is poor, since Kyoto, which only some countries signed upto, emissions have continued to increase... obviously nobody really wants to stop production, to stop making huge profits or to spend money to change production methods to more costly but environmentally friendly ones.

How does one change peoples perspective so effectively? How does one cause industry to slow and therefore see a real reduction in emissions? Without direct Government intervention and that has affect on the whole world, even the countries who wouldn't address Kyoto. If we can remember that most of the finance that is building coal burning power stations and heavy pollutant industries in developing countries comes from developed countries profiteering.

After almost 2 decades of decadence and waste in the west, we are used to our high wages (comparatively to that of developing and 3rd world nations), travelling freely across the globe, owning property, enjoying access to the best foods, clean running water, the ease at which credit can be consumed, the proliferation of all manner of electronic devices with a half-life of 3-6months... convincing the west to stop consuming is not an easy task.

Unless that is, that it is not negotiable, that it is unavoidable, and therefore 100% effective.

Could it be that the Credit crisis is a fabricated event? There were people who knew that that if the subprime industry was let loose as it had been, there would be a clear, predictable and inevitable outcome. The warning bells were but apparently silenced. Some may enjoy looking into the stockmarket crash of the 20's preceding the Great Depression and may find some interesting parallels. Particularly the behavior of some of the largest banks and the banking families behind them.

Credit got out of control, the larger lending banks called their debt/loans in, the smaller banks defaulted and were subsequently brought out by the larger banks, a huge banking consolidation occurred. Check out the history of JP Morgan and the Rockefellers and their respective banks.
The result then was as it is now, although now the same trick has been played out on a global scale, banks around the world are collapsing and becoming victims of their lenders or nationalized in some cases, credit is shrinking, this contraction then impacts on us and the larger industries slow as credit dries up as does the consumer dollar.
production shrinks and people lose their jobs... then there is the call to return to the local market, globalism survives but the people are too poor to indulge as they once did with reckless abandon. survival becomes the focus, not whether or not we should get the 32" or 42" plasma screen, car sales dive and public transport is flooded, expensive imported items become available to fewer as transportation cost soar.

The best way to reduce carbon emissions is to halt or to restrict all industries that pollute (industries that do not pollute are acceptable collateral in the larger picture) would be to initiate a global recession. While at the same time working on policies that would be useful in a decades time when nations are back on their feet and their backbone industries would be developing within the new emissions guidelines.

A possible but fanciful conspiracy daydream is it not? an end to Globalisation as we have known it and the return to the local market?


rubbish!!!!.

[Pandy]

Thanks for the constructive feedback Kernelp4nic... this is after all the Alternative thoughts section... will you be visiting all other threads in a similar fashion?

I was however interested in opening some discussion... conspiracy or not there is some shred of reality in that the global recession could have a real impact on emission levels... care to disagree?

[Pandy]

One noticeable reduction in carbon emissions will be from developing countries as credit dries up. A reduction here could be seen as 'not increasing but maintaining the current level'

Consider that most developing countries have relied on foreign investment for industry and infrastructure - especially power stations - and that most developing countries do not have legislation prohibiting the construction of the cheapest, and by that, coal burning power stations - so they can build as many as they need at a time when the developed world is curbing the burning of coal and looking at newer and often more expensive energy sources.

From this perspective - this global recession WILL have an impact on greenhouse emissions by way of slowing the production of coal burning power stations.

[mgldude]

It's a coincidence, man. Nobody's initiated the global financial crisis to curb the carbon emissions in order to save the planet. Of course, the decreased production and consumption of goods would lead to lesser carbon emissions - which is one of the very few positives that this global crisis entails.

[apodyopsis]

Bit of a knobhead response there Kernelp4nic...best to say nothing at all if you have nothing constructive to say...:rolleyes:

[apodyopsis]

Is there any evidence that things like deforestation of the rainforests has slowed and if so can this be directly linked to the economic downturn?

[valseedian]

bacteria fart more than cows and humans combined. phytoplankton and single cell organisms produce way more greenhouse gasses.

[FunkyJunkie]

I'm not entirely sure that global warming is much more than the earth going through it's natural cycles which sometimes create allot of imbalance. I aggree that the amount of waste we produce is defanately amplifying the impact the weather/climate cycles have on us and the planet, but I don't fully believe that we will ultamately cause our own distruction through pollution. There are scientists on both sides of this "greenhouse effect" problem. I defanately think we need to place some restrictions on our waste, and have done so in my personal life aswell, however, we also have to be reasonable about how much we are actually able to restrict. I doubt that the current crisis was engineered to stop us from being wasteful (im sure it was for a much darker agenda, like global domination) I honestly don't think the issue is important enough to the people that have that kind of power. But I aggree that the west is the root of the waste problems, they cause other countries (like China) to create WAY more pollution than neccairy. But either way, this crisis, wether intended to or not, should naturally reduce wastefulness worldwide, eventually anyways... because its defanately a wake up call for the fat cats that no one is immune, and hopefully it will teach everyone to be more responsible.

[Pandy]

It's a coincidence, man. Nobody's initiated the global financial crisis to curb the carbon emissions in order to save the planet. Of course, the decreased production and consumption of goods would lead to lesser carbon emissions - which is one of the very few positives that this global crisis entails.

I think it is easy to see that link that connection between financial downturn and decreases in carbon emissions - that was my initial observation/hypothesis a one any one could put together.

My pondering and conspiracy mongering came from these the timing of these two occurrences - climate change and the need to cut carbon emissions immediately AND how do you affect change on such a massive level.

imo upto now all efforts to reduce carbon emissions have been half-baked ponzi schemes - even the old-boys from Enron are in on the scam with carbon trading units. what really has changed since Kyoto '92? not much and carbon emissions keep on growing. by all accounts you would think that no one really wants to be the first to make a drastic change, for drastic change would be a killer blow to most countries economies - hence why things are being stretched out as far as they can "15% reduction by 2025" etc etc. this is piss poor. but a financial global downturn would in effect create a 15%+ reduction in a matter of years would it not? which as we can all agree is a good thing - well apart from everything getting expensive and job losses.

On another note, this whole thing doesn't appear to be having much affect on the US$dollar... so maybe the Amero is still a while off.

[FunkyJunkie]

Its an interesting theory, you very well could have something there. However if I was a corrupt world leader I would let the people creating the waste keep it up and start slapping them with huge fines and ride it out and rape them for millions. (I work in Canadas big oil industry and thats exactly what they are doing to my company, and its caused us to develop new technologies to lower our emmissions by 6% already.) I wouldnt think it to be a good idea to cause a global financial meltdown to lower emmissions simply because its not a permanent solution and there is too high a risk of losing money where there is high potential to make it, and create more in the future. As to say, create propagandha, get everyone freaking out to the point where they support harsh carbon taxes for big business, then when it becomes the norm, tax civillians, then when the new technology is developed, you make money on that when it becomes law to use it and everyone has to pay to make the switch, THEN set harsh goals for carbon reduction where you get huge bonuses and cash when they are met, THEN would be a good idea to engineer a market crash and bring the emissions down FURTHER (to your ultamate goal % decrease) and make another killing. . . thats what id do anyways, assuming it was all about money and tha I really didnt care about the enviroment at all. So to sum up, I think its possible that you could be right, but if you are, whoever did engineer this is either incredibly stupid, or fucked it up and is ahead of schedule. But I doubt they would do this to the world economy JUST to reduce emmissions, its probably more about world governance. I can certainly see how your theory could tie into it though, defanately might play a part.

[bigtenfan11]

Global Warming is a bunch of bullshit. It is true that the earth right now may be heating up, but that has nothing to do with the people on this earth contributing to that factor. It goes through cycles throughout time and we have just hit a period of warmer temperatures. This has happened throughout time and all of this crap from all Gore is just a huge scam. Do you know how much money Gore has made from this scam saying that we are causing Global warming? We dont' heat up the earth, the sun heats it up. Did you also know that not only earth maybe getting warmer, but other planets as well?

[FunkyJunkie]

Absolutely, I aggree with you. It's always been this way, Theres much more evidence to prove that, than what you can find reguarding any "crisis" dreamed up by the government to milk it for cash. People are just greedy now. Either way however, we do waste allot of resources and energy, and that does do damage to the planet imho, so hopefully this helps reduce that atleast. It would be nice to start thinking of others (namely future residents of earth) and finally start to protect the earth so they can share in it's beauty. Instead of killing it slowly. ... Man it is hot today tho :p

[bigtenfan11]

Yea I know it really pisses me off that someone is just making a lot of money of a huge scam. This global warming concern is just going to be used to tax people and make government even bigger. Also if global warming was true tell Gore to do his cause too.:D

[iodei]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

It's not like this hasn't happened before... people just don't remember... and before that we didn't notice weather patterns. They were the will of the gods!!! watch the history channel =P

[piracetam101]

Most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is created by dead plants, leaves, etc.

This "man-made" global warming thing is definatley scienctifically proven wrong.

-AND-

there was more CO2 in ppm, in the year 1250 than there is today
did they have cars or the kind of industrialization we do today?
nope
this proves that at least 99.5% of CO2 emmisions are not caused by humans

The global warming isn't even caused by greenhouse gases.
If it were caused be greenhouse gases, the trophosphere would be much warmer than the earth surace, and its not, the surface today is much warmer than the trophosphere suggesting that its either because of alot of solar activity from the sun, or just naturally.

But NO POSSIBLE way is it man made.

Global Warming has occured on every planet. We didn't do anything wrong. Its natural.

[GOA]

It's because of the 2012 galactic alignment! The sun is gonna explode! ARGH! :D

[normmacdonald]

that blew my mind , i think , may have been something else!

[normmacdonald]

why is no1 talkin do ppl think am a cop or is it jus very late ..ne one?

[superhigh]

I'm here mate..the members don't visit this thread quite often ;) you should try posting at other threads :) cheers